Murder and Extremism in the USA

[Yerda]

Article for discussion: Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2016

I have held the opinion for a while that the far-left and far-right in America are two cheeks of the same arse, but in at least one respect there is apparently no equivalence:

Over the past 10 years (2007-2016), domestic extremists of all kinds have killed at least 372 people in the United States. Of those deaths, approximately 74% were at the hands of right-wing extremists, about 24% of the victims were killed by domestic Islamic extremists, and the remainder were killed by left-wing extremists.

This is illiuminating if true.

 

[Mister Silver]

Of course it is no surprise that the majority of the violence perpetrated comes from the right.

 

[David1967]

Article for discussion: Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2016

I have held the opinion for a while that the far-left and far-right in America are two cheeks of the same arse, but in at least one respect there is apparently no equivalence:

Over the past 10 years (2007-2016), domestic extremists of all kinds have killed at least 372 people in the United States. Of those deaths, approximately 74% were at the hands of right-wing extremists, about 24% of the victims were killed by domestic Islamic extremists, and the remainder were killed by left-wing extremists.

This is illiuminating if true.

You are correct that both the far right and far left are the "arse" of humanity. Extremism on one side inspires a counter extremism from the other resulting in an endless back and forth with no hope of resolve. As we unfortunately are seeing in the USA now.

 

[Laika]

Article for discussion: Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2016

I have held the opinion for a while that the far-left and far-right in America are two cheeks of the same arse, but in at least one respect there is apparently no equivalence:

Over the past 10 years (2007-2016), domestic extremists of all kinds have killed at least 372 people in the United States. Of those deaths, approximately 74% were at the hands of right-wing extremists, about 24% of the victims were killed by domestic Islamic extremists, and the remainder were killed by left-wing extremists.

This is illiuminating if true.

Far left extremism hasn't been a significant problem in the United States since at least the early 1990's but you could probably go back earlier to the 80s. The collapse of the USSR and of communism worldwide has basically crippled the far left since then and nothing meaningful has yet taken its place as far as mass movements go. depending on your definition there is some environmental, animal rights and anarchist extremism in the 90's, 2000s and 2010's, but it is nothing compared to the peak of far left terrorist/extremist activity in the 1960's and 70's in the US.

I did a thread on this earlier in the year and one of the links is the previous years ADL report on murder and extremism in the US from 2015. It may still be useful.

The Threat from the Left in the US

 

[Father Heathen]

You are correct that both the far right and far left are the "arse" of humanity. Extremism on one side inspires a counter extremism from the other resulting in an endless back and forth with no hope of resolve. As we unfortunately are seeing in the USA now.

74% vs. 2% isn't much of a back and forth.

 

[DavidFirth]

Article for discussion: Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2016

I have held the opinion for a while that the far-left and far-right in America are two cheeks of the same arse, but in at least one respect there is apparently no equivalence:

Over the past 10 years (2007-2016), domestic extremists of all kinds have killed at least 372 people in the United States. Of those deaths, approximately 74% were at the hands of right-wing extremists, about 24% of the victims were killed by domestic Islamic extremists, and the remainder were killed by left-wing extremists.

This is illiuminating if true.

What's your source for your stats? Please post the link.

 

[tytlyf]

You are correct that both the far right and far left are the "arse" of humanity.

I disagree. Knowing that climate change is influenced by pollution isn't an extreme position.

 

[Nous]

I did a thread on this earlier in the year and one of the links is the previous years ADL report on murder and extremism in the US from 2015. It may still be useful.

The Threat from the Left in the US

For whatever reason, I didn't see that thread. The graph from the ADL is informative and confounding. The sharp fall of left-wing extremist police officer killings almost perfectly matched by the sharp rise in right-wing extremist police officer killings. How does one explain that?

 

[David1967]

I disagree. Knowing that climate change is influenced by pollution isn't an extreme position.

Gotcha. So is burning looting and destroying property because an election didn't go a persons way. (Just for example) Why does that not count as extremism? It seems extremism is defined by people someone disagrees with doing something violent while perfectly acceptable if it fits an individuals ideology. My opinion ,it is all equally bad and needs to stop.

 

[David1967]

74% vs. 2% isn't much of a back and forth.

Goes back to how a person defines the two extremes. And is this limited to murder, or does vandalism and assault count?

 

[tytlyf]

Gotcha. So is burning looting and destroying property because an election didn't go a persons way. (Just for example) Why does that not count as extremism? It seems extremism is defined by people someone disagrees with doing something violent while perfectly acceptable if it fits an individuals ideology. My opinion ,it is all equally bad and needs to stop.

Ah, I get it. False equivalence to the KKK.. haha

Let me guess, you'll blame black people right?

 

[David1967]

Ah, I get it. False equivalence to the KKK.. haha

KKK? Where the heck did that come from? There is no way that I will ever defend any group like that. Ty. One thing I can say in your favor. You are consistent.

 

[Laika]

For whatever reason, I didn't see that thread. The graph from the ADL is informative and confounding. The sharp fall of left-wing extremist police officer killings almost perfectly matched by the sharp rise in right-wing extremist police officer killings. How does one explain that?

I don't know. The PDF file below is a report for the US department of energy from April 2001 about far-left extremism. its pretty thorough and may be useful. there is a comparison of the make-up of far left and far right extremist groups on page 9 of the PDF (page 4 of the report) which shows that they fulfil the interests of different groups of people.
https://fas.org/irp/world/para/left.pdf

Contrary to popular perception, left-wing and right-wing extremism are not interchangable given the nature of the ideological differences as research on the subject shows below. In fact, whilst research has gone quite a long way to identify indicators of right-wing authoritarianism, the combination of being simultaneously revolutionary and authoritarian has made it harder for psychologists to pin down what "left-wing authoritarianism" actually is.
http://bartduriez.com/sites/default/files/documents/PDF/2006_Vanhiel_etal.pdf

I can't explain why far-right groups would rise at that time, but I think you can safely rule out the idea of any direct movement of people from far left to far right terrorist groups. However, its possible that white working class men may have opted for far right groups as a vehicle to express dissent that the far left was no longer able to cater for. it's an educated guess though, but it would be weird for them to be completely unrelated.

 

[tytlyf]

KKK? Where the heck did that come from? There is no way that I will ever defend any group like that. Ty. One thing I can say in your favor. You are consistent.

Yes, you said the far right extremists. Which are the KKK, white supremacists and people who support their mentality. We're not talking about a few people here either.

 

[David1967]

Yes, you said the far right extremists. Which are the KKK, white supremacists and people who support their mentality. We're not talking about a few people here either.

Nope. Here is what I said.

My opinion ,it is all equally bad and needs to stop.

Please don't twist what I say like that. I've no problem with an honest difference of opinion but seriously?

 

[tytlyf]

You said both the far left and the far right are the 'arse' of humanity. Almost like an equality or something. I pointed out who the arse of the right is, now you point out who the arse of the far left is?

Or was the example you provided of people rioting your proof?

False equivalence.

 

[4consideration]

Article for discussion: Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2016

I have held the opinion for a while that the far-left and far-right in America are two cheeks of the same arse, but in at least one respect there is apparently no equivalence:

Over the past 10 years (2007-2016), domestic extremists of all kinds have killed at least 372 people in the United States. Of those deaths, approximately 74% were at the hands of right-wing extremists, about 24% of the victims were killed by domestic Islamic extremists, and the remainder were killed by left-wing extremists.

This is illiuminating if true.

The wording of the quote above can easily be mistaken to create the belief these figures are terrorist related, or ideologically related deaths, but they're not necessarily.

Did you pick up on that when reading the ADL report?

 

[Revoltingest]

Article for discussion: Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2016

I have held the opinion for a while that the far-left and far-right in America are two cheeks of the same arse, but in at least one respect there is apparently no equivalence:

Over the past 10 years (2007-2016), domestic extremists of all kinds have killed at least 372 people in the United States. Of those deaths, approximately 74% were at the hands of right-wing extremists, about 24% of the victims were killed by domestic Islamic extremists, and the remainder were killed by left-wing extremists.

This is illiuminating if true.

To limit the claim to only the past 10 years is a pretty small window of time.
If we went back further, & included riots & plane crashes, would it differ?

 

[4consideration]

To limit the claim to only the past 10 years is a pretty small window of time.
If we went back further, & included riots & plane crashes, would it differ?

They are counting people labeled as extremists that also murder, not those people murdering because of their ideology.

When I look at the Global Terrorist Database for the US in that 10 year time frame, and only look at fatalities, I see 185 deaths, and of those approximately 105 are listed as perpetrated by: Jihadi Inspired extremists, Muslim extremists.

That's about 56%.

GTD Search Results

 

[Nakosis]

For whatever reason, I didn't see that thread. The graph from the ADL is informative and confounding. The sharp fall of left-wing extremist police officer killings almost perfectly matched by the sharp rise in right-wing extremist police officer killings. How does one explain that?

Perhaps because the left had become the establishment. If you feel the government isn't supporting your values folks are more likely to become more extreme. Since Trump came into office the left seems more comfortable with physical threats.