Multiculturalism:Your Opinion

[Wirey]

Ok, so what happens when two cultures blend, and their respective core values don't mix to such a degree that the cultural practices of one group are illegal in the other group's culture?

A war.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A war.

Yup, pretty much. Definite social conflict.

 

[icehorse]

A war.

Remember the context is multiculturalism. So that implies some immigration. Are you saying specifically "civil war"? Because the adversaries are already geographically intermingled.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Remember the context is multiculturalism. So that implies some immigration. Are you saying specifically "civil war"? Because the adversaries are already geographically intermingled.

Some form of civil dispute yes. Eventually they have to come to some kind of consensus on what should be universally understood. Most secular societies today find about the same kind of laws. It might be from globalization or it might be the natural end point for morality that leaves out "tradition".

 

[Wirey]

Remember the context is multiculturalism. So that implies some immigration. Are you saying specifically "civil war"? Because the adversaries are already geographically intermingled.

If necessary, yes. Or a guerrilla campaign like the FLQ or the guys who tried to bomb the Canadian Parliment buildings. If cultures clash, they rarely withdraw. They attempt to crush one another. How many Spaniards learned to speak Aztec?

 

[At The Left Hand ov God]

Multiculturalism is good in moderation, just don't start turning into a weeaboo.

 

[icehorse]

Some form of civil dispute yes. Eventually they have to come to some kind of consensus on what should be universally understood. Most secular societies today find about the same kind of laws. It might be from globalization or it might be the natural end point for morality that leaves out "tradition".

I suspect that when we're discussing multiculturalism, we're typically NOT thinking of those cases when secular culture A blends with secular culture B.

I'm pretty sure that the intent of this thread is to explore when at least one religious culture is involved in a multicultural scenario.

For example, how should conflicts be resolved when a theocratic culture encounters a secular culture?

 

[Majikthise]

Why is the opinion that cultural assimilation is important always met with accusations of racism and bigotry? Those words have been so improperly assigned and used lately they will soon loose the sting they should rightly command.

 

[icehorse]

Why is the opinion that cultural assimilation is important always met with accusations of racism and bigotry? Those words have been so improperly assigned and used lately they will soon loose the sting they should rightly command.

Can you clarify what you mean by "cultural assimilation"? Maybe provide an example. This isn't a snarky answer, I'd really like to know what you mean.

 

[Estro Felino]

Anglophones in Quebec are not protesting that they don't want to learn French.

It is the French Quebecois who protest because they don't want to learn English. Nor do they want to hear it spoken by government officials or see it written on signs. They have gone so far as to force all the English pubs and restaurants to purge their apostrophes to avoid violating French language laws. So "Murphy's" becomes "Murphys". Lol.

well...dear friend. You should be more empathetic with French natives. I understand them perfectly; French was the lingua franca of the 19th century and the language of diplomacy for many centuries.
Imagine that in Italy, until the sixties, English was not taught in public schools. Only French, besides Italian.
In fact the old generations in Italy speak French, not English.

It's like English stole the role that French played once. And the French want to defend the prestige of their language; of course the old generations are vicious and resented towards the English language. Can you blame them?

 

[Majikthise]

Can you clarify what you mean by "cultural assimilation"? Maybe provide an example. This isn't a snarky answer, I'd really like to know what you mean.

Learning the language of the host is a biggie. Obeying the laws of the culture you wish to join.
Respecting their traditions that don't harm you physically as they should respect yours.
This is all assuming that you voluntarily wish to become a part of their society. If you really don't wish to be a part of it, don't go there. Work to right the wrongs of your own place of origin. It's often very hard, but then life isn't a walk in the park for anybody.

 

[icehorse]

Learning the language of the host is a biggie. Obeying the laws of the culture you wish to join.
Respecting their traditions that don't harm you physically as they should respect yours.
This is all assuming that you voluntarily wish to become a part of their society. If you really don't wish to be a part of it, don't go there. Work to right the wrongs of your own place of origin. It's often very hard, but then life isn't a walk in the park for anybody.

Got it. So the way you're using it means the flavor in which the immigrant is meant to assimilate into the culture to which he's traveled. This is probably the most common and intuitive flavor, although sometimes the immigrants want it the other way around, and occasionally they succeed.

So perhaps "pure" multiculturalists imagine a situation in which all the cultures that are thrown together are on equal footing and some sort of perfect blend will occur.

I'd say that the host culture ought to have dibs. In other words, the host culture should not have to change significantly to welcome the immigrant. That seems the most moral and ethical.

 

[icehorse]

And now, looking a little more deeply I see variations:

- multiculturalism
- interculturalism
- transculturation
- assimilationism

So Majikthise, I suspect your definition might most accurately be called "assimilationism" ?

I feel a new thread coming on...

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I suspect that when we're discussing multiculturalism, we're typically NOT thinking of those cases when secular culture A blends with secular culture B.

I'm pretty sure that the intent of this thread is to explore when at least one religious culture is involved in a multicultural scenario.

For example, how should conflicts be resolved when a theocratic culture encounters a secular culture?

I'm saying that every country in the world that has had peaceful coexistence of conflicting cultures has been a secular nation. Eventually they would have to evolve to that level. And multiculturalism is the first step to getting there. Part of what has created horrific ideals in the past is isolation.

 

[icehorse]

I'm saying that every country in the world that has had peaceful coexistence of conflicting cultures has been a secular nation. Eventually they would have to evolve to that level. And multiculturalism is the first step to getting there. Part of what has created horrific ideals in the past is isolation.

Agreed, except as a point of definition. It strikes me that what you're describing is "assimilationism" not "multiculturalism". In other words, when immigrants come to a secular culture, they mostly assimilate. They do not mostly impose their culture on the host country.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Learning the language of the host is a biggie. Obeying the laws of the culture you wish to join.
Respecting their traditions that don't harm you physically as they should respect yours.
This is all assuming that you voluntarily wish to become a part of their society. If you really don't wish to be a part of it, don't go there. Work to right the wrongs of your own place of origin. It's often very hard, but then life isn't a walk in the park for anybody.

Indeed. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

 

[icehorse]

Indeed. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

And I think that what I'm hearing is that for the last few decades in Europe they tried suspending that old adage, and it hasn't been working out too well.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And I think that what I'm hearing is that for the last few decades in Europe they tried suspending that old adage, and it hasn't been working out too well.

Nope. Not working out well here, either.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Agreed, except as a point of definition. It strikes me that what you're describing is "assimilationism" not "multiculturalism". In other words, when immigrants come to a secular culture, they mostly assimilate. They do not mostly impose their culture on the host country.

Yet they maintain their culture at home. It is a logical fallacy to say there is multiculturalism where everyone imposes their culture on everyone else. There has to be some degree of assimilation but that doesn't invalidate my point in the slightest.

 

[icehorse]

Yet they maintain their culture at home. It is a logical fallacy to say there is multiculturalism where everyone imposes their culture on everyone else. There has to be some degree of assimilation but that doesn't invalidate my point in the slightest.

I'm not disagreeing with your perspective. What I'm trying to do is refine the vernacular we're using. Especially to make fine distinctions in the definitions of "assimilationism", "multiculturalism", and whatever other "-isms" exist in this spectrum.