Multiculturalism:Your Opinion

[Alceste]

Where is that in the Constitution?

Yes, there's a special clause in there that says "whatever Alceste thinks is probably true".

 

[Tarheeler]

Well..each country has its own official language. That's why dialects are banned from schools, and they will completely disappear, someday.
Linguistic Minorities are doomed to disappear. France has successfully erased all the linguistic minorities from the official public administration.

There isn't a national "official" language in the US. While some states have declared English to be the official language of that state, others do not and Hawaii and the American territories all have official languages other than English.
English is used for most official and legal business, but you can find just about any language being used on a day-to-day basis.

 

[Estro Felino]

They do learn French. Je ne sais pas pourquoi tu penserais que nous ne parlons pas Francais, les anglophones du Quebec.

well...sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I meant that some anglophones protested because they didn't want to learn French.

hem...It's "pourquoi tu penses"

 

[Wirey]

Yes, there's a special clause in there that says "whatever Alceste thinks is probably true".

There was a pretty popular groundswell in Alberta before I moved here. Preston Manning suggested that Canada should vote on whether or not to kick Quebec out, and the Ottawa talking heads said it had as much legal merit as the Separatist movement.

I believe his idea was to let them starve in the dark for a winter, and then invite them to rejoin an English-only Canada. What a humanitarian that Mr. Dressup-looking freak was!

 

[Alceste]

There was a pretty popular groundswell in Alberta before I moved here. Preston Manning suggested that Canada should vote on whether or not to kick Quebec out, and the Ottawa talking heads said it had as much legal merit as the Separatist movement.

I believe his idea was to let them starve in the dark for a winter, and then invite them to rejoin an English-only Canada. What a humanitarian that Mr. Dressup-looking freak was!

Lol. yeah, like a Nazi Mr. Dressup. I actually went to hear him speak at a Reform rally before I had any political affiliations of my own. My Dad bought his book.

 

[Alceste]

well...sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I meant that some anglophones protested because they didn't want to learn French.

hem...It's "pourquoi tu penses"

Anglophones in Quebec are not protesting that they don't want to learn French.

It is the French Quebecois who protest because they don't want to learn English. Nor do they want to hear it spoken by government officials or see it written on signs. They have gone so far as to force all the English pubs and restaurants to purge their apostrophes to avoid violating French language laws. So "Murphy's" becomes "Murphys". Lol.

At one point I was working as a stage manager at a Francophone concert with another anglophone colleague, and our employer gave us hell for speaking English TO EACH OTHER over the radio. We were the only two people on that channel. We also had inspectors come to our mostly English-speaking workplace to scrutinize the employee register and make sure we had "enough" Francophones employed there.

The language wars are absurd in Quebec, but virtually non-existent in the rest of Canada.

 

[Riverwolf]

What makes a language great? Its prestige. Italian became the national language of Italy because Dante wrote the Divine Comedy in Italian.
so the dignity of a language is related to the greatness of its literature.

who made the English language great? Shakespeare

By the way, Latin is a dead language

English is actually a TERRIBLE language.

As far as I'm concerned, a language's "dignity" is dependent on its ability to accurately and efficiently communicate ideas. It has nothing to do with whatever literature might exist. Besides, the English that Shakespeare spoke, and wrote in(i.e., Early Modern English), is very different from Modern English.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

well..I definitely agree with these protesters. Because Hispanic immigrants don't take the English language learning seriously, and this cannot be tolerated.
If you want to live in the Us, you are supposed to speak English.

And what irritates me the most is that some children of Hispanic immigrants make a mixture between Spanish and English. So they speak Spanish, but their Spanish is so full of grammatical mistakes, that irritates me.

The people waving the placards don't even take the English language seriously. The very placards they wave are proof of that.
They're just looking for an issue to champion that matches to their pre-existing opinions on border protection.

If there was an English language test, or something, what are you going to do with the citizens of the nation who fail, yet are born and bred and have English as their first (or only) language?

 

[Vinayaka]

I think they should separate, since as a general rule I believe smaller states tend to be less oppressive.

I've always thought that too, and have often wondered how a referendum for the rest of us on, 'Let's let them go." would go.

 

[Estro Felino]

Anglophones in Quebec are not protesting that they don't want to learn French.

It is the French Quebecois who protest because they don't want to learn English. Nor do they want to hear it spoken by government officials or see it written on signs. They have gone so far as to force all the English pubs and restaurants to purge their apostrophes to avoid violating French language laws. So "Murphy's" becomes "Murphys". Lol.

....and don't you think they have the right to be dispensed from the obligation of learning English?
That's exactly what I was trying to say. Given that Quebec has stated that French is the official language...nobody is forced to speak English or to learn English.
If you live in Quebec, you are supposed to speak French. If you speak English and French fluently, even better.
But you cannot force French Quebecois to learn English!

Now I'm more convinced than ever, that they deserve more political autonomy

 

[Estro Felino]

English is actually a TERRIBLE language.

As far as I'm concerned, a language's "dignity" is dependent on its ability to accurately and efficiently communicate ideas. It has nothing to do with whatever literature might exist. Besides, the English that Shakespeare spoke, and wrote in(i.e., Early Modern English), is very different from Modern English.

come on...it's English. If it weren't English, nobody would read the KJV Bible.
A version that lots of people praise and read.

what do you mean by terrible?
actually English is rich in words and synonyms. English is a very pragmatic and essential language. A word in English can express the meaning of an entire Italian sentence

 

[Alceste]

....and don't you think they have the right to be dispensed from the obligation of learning English?
That's exactly what I was trying to say. Given that Quebec has stated that French is the official language...nobody is forced to speak English or to learn English.
If you live in Quebec, you are supposed to speak French. If you speak English and French fluently, even better.
But you cannot force French Quebecois to learn English!

Now I'm more convinced than ever, that they deserve more political autonomy

Once again, the anglophones in Quebec are virtually all bilingual, and they have no problem with that. Bilingualism is a good thing. In Canada it really increases your work opportunities. They have a problem with French language Nazis trying to impose stupid language laws on them and interfere in their businesses. And they have a problem with the needless anger and controversy surrounding the whole language issue, the vast majority of it stemming from the French.

Look, in my neighbourhood there are dozens of signs that are in Chinese. Nothing but Chinese. Everybody who lives around here is Chinese. And guess what? I don't care. I'm not shrieking for the gub'mint to raid these people's stores, force them to take down their signs, fine them and make them learn English. I'm not getting outraged when I hear them speaking Chinese to each other.

That's the mentality I have a problem with. It is pervasive in Quebec, and non-existent in the rest of Canada.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

English is actually a TERRIBLE language.

Awwww...it's not THAT bad. It's inconsistent, and a bit of a bastardization. But it's functional. It's lacking in some precision at times, I guess.
Try Tok Pisin. You get about 4000 words to describe everything...lol

As far as I'm concerned, a language's "dignity" is dependent on its ability to accurately and efficiently communicate ideas. It has nothing to do with whatever literature might exist. Besides, the English that Shakespeare spoke, and wrote in(i.e., Early Modern English), is very different from Modern English.

I'm kinda confused by the idea that a language has dignity, to be honest.

 

[Vinayaka]

The other day on the bus I heard a language I didn't know. I so felt like asking, but it seemed rude. Makes life more interesting. In retrospect, I shoulda asked.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Once again, the anglophones in Quebec are virtually all bilingual, and they have no problem with that. Bilingualism is a good thing. In Canada it really increases your work opportunities. They have a problem with French language Nazis trying to impose stupid language laws on them and interfere in their businesses. And they have a problem with the needless anger and controversy surrounding the whole language issue, the vast majority of it stemming from the French.

Look, in my neighbourhood there are dozens of signs that are in Chinese. Nothing but Chinese. Everybody who lives around here is Chinese. And guess what? I don't care. I'm not shrieking for the gub'mint to raid these people's stores, force them to take down their signs, fine them and make them learn English. I'm not getting outraged when I hear them speaking Chinese to each other.

That's the mentality I have a problem with. It is pervasive in Quebec, and non-existent in the rest of Canada.

Yeah, my parents have just got back from Canada, and they were quite surprised by some of the deliberate language issues they ran into in Quebec.

They struggled to order a coffee in one shop, since the staff on the till were claiming they couldn't understand English.
Sorry, but one coffee, one caffe, un caffe...it's school playground mentality to not at least take a stab at what that means. (given that they were in a coffee shop, and pointing to the size coffee cup they wanted).

That is as anecdotal as it gets, and the smallest sample size possible, so take it for what it's worth, but seemed relevant.

(btw, they thought Canada..including Quebec...was frigging awesome.)

 

[Vinayaka]

Unfortunately that's reality Lewis. Not nearly everyone, but some shops for sure.

 

[Estro Felino]

Once again, the anglophones in Quebec are virtually all bilingual, and they have no problem with that. Bilingualism is a good thing. In Canada it really increases your work opportunities. They have a problem with French language Nazis trying to impose stupid language laws on them and interfere in their businesses. And they have a problem with the needless anger and controversy surrounding the whole language issue, the vast majority of it stemming from the French.
.

I am sorry, but the attitude of these "French language Nazis" is understandable.
I don' think that language laws are invasive. Just try to be more empathetic with them.

some (or many) French people don't like to hear English. Should we blame them for that?

 

[Alceste]

I am sorry, but the attitude of these "French language Nazis" is understandable.
I don' think that language laws are invasive. Just try to be more empathetic with them.

No. They're stupid laws. I lived in Quebec for five years and personally witnessed how stupid they are. How about you?

Edit: For the record, most of my friends were Francophone separatists. Nearly all, in fact. I am empathetic for their nationalist cause, but not for their stupid language laws.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I am sorry, but the attitude of these "French language Nazis" is understandable.
I don' think that language laws are invasive. Just try to be more empathetic with them.

some (or many) French people don't like to hear English. Should we blame them for that?

Blame them? I dunno if blame is the right word. But they're being assclowns.
Issues of separatism, what language official documents are in, etc...they're worthy of serious discussion.
Not liking anyone to speak English around you is assclownery. Just like it would be if I didn't like people speaking French around me.

Note, it is not always universal. If I'm in a business meeting, it should be conducted primarily in one language just so everyone gets the same information. Which is not the same thing, but wanted to clarify my position.

 

[Bunyip]

I love muliculturalism.

Mainly because I am old enough to remember a time when the most exotic thing you could get as take away food was chips and a pie.

I'm not saying that multiculturalism is for everyone - but i would always prefer to live in a multicultural society.