IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
JoshuaDeuteronomy 18:15-22 speaks of a coming Prophet. Muslims like to associate this passage with Muhammad, whilst Christians believe the Prophet is Jesus Christ.
What do Jews believe?
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JoshuaDeuteronomy 18:15-22 speaks of a coming Prophet. Muslims like to associate this passage with Muhammad, whilst Christians believe the Prophet is Jesus Christ.
What do Jews believe?
Hey, you brought an entire passage. I showed the clear connection between part of it and Jeremiah. Hence, that emphasizes flaws in your theory that the entire passage is a prophecy towards a specific person. Voila.
Do you have any evidence that Jesus was a contemporary of Moses, given that Deut 18:15 says that a prophet will be chosen from his three million relatives who had followed him for forty years?
So why did the writers of Matt 1 and Luke 3 try to link Jesus to David who was a Jewish king and said that he was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:6-7)?
Here's da thing: if someone believes that Jesus existed and the trial before Pilate took place, do you think he also believes he performed miracles? See, that's the question...
It appears that your thread has been addressed by various people who are not Jewish. Do you really want to know how Jews view the Torah and the reason why what we say about the Torah is reliable?
We dont' consider Luke to be authoratative for a number of reasons. The information in the text is not accurate of history around the time it is claimed to describe. In fact, even in Christian scholarship the authorship of the gospels is heavily debated.
I created a playlist that can help you with understanding the issues.
Debunking Missionaries - YouTube
Joshua
Deuteronomy 18:15-22 speaks of a coming Prophet.
What do Jews believe?
I find that many Jews claim to have read the New Testament, when, in fact, they are only referring to the work of others.
Arguments over authorship aside, have you read Luke's account in the book of Acts? If so, which passages do you believe are not historically correct?
Tell me, how was Joshua a prophet 'like unto me' (Moses)?
As you have argued so forcefully elsewhere, Moses is the only one that replicates God's word. You said, the Prophets and Writings are the inspired words of man, not God.
According to your recent posts, Joshua must have been a lesser prophet than Moses.
If I may be so bold, who might you say is your prophet now? (In this generation? Was it Rebbe Schneerson?)
In other words the prophet/leader had to be a contemporary of Moses and the three million relatives who followed him, otherwise it would be totally irrelevant to the three million relatives he was addressing who aimlessly followed him for forty years.Deuteronomy 18:18. 'I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto me, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.'
Breaking down your question would require us to ask the following questions:
So taking these questions, from the Jewish side of things we would get the following answers.
- Starting at Devarim (Deut.) 1 who is speaking and who is the audience?
- What language was the speaker, at the time, speaking and what evidence in the text is there for the intended time frame of his statements? (Current, near future, or far future)
- What methodologies in the original text are given for knowing the answers to #2?
- Who is considered to have the most ancient, authentic, and authoratative answers to the previous questions?
All of that being said, Yehoshua bin-Nun (Joshua) is the one being spoken of in the Hebrew text of the Torah Devarim (Deut.) 18:15-22. The subject of what is being expressed, i.e. how things will work when that generation of Israelis will enter into the land of Kanaan is started from Deut. 1:6 and also how they are to manage themselves in the land. The Torah based prophecy that is identified is the type that only happens in the land of Israel. Thus, Yehoshua bin-Nun is also further indentified as the subject in Deut. 31:7 of the Hebrew texts and he met all of the qualifications mentioned in Deut. 18:15-22, including having been trained/instructed by Mosheh ben-Amram (Moses) and publically sanctioned, which was accepted by all of the Israelis of his generation. (See Deut. 34:9)
- AlThe speaker is an Israeli, of Levite descent, named Mosheh ben-Amram (Moses son of Amram) and the audience of the entire text of the Deut. is the generation Israelis who with him right before he passed away and would be going to enter into the land of Kanaan as well as their future descendants.
- The language that Mosheh ben-Amram spoke the information found in Deut. was Hebrew. The intended time frame of his speaking concerns things that were for the current generation, of that time, near future (within the next 1 to two generations), and far future generations. (This evidence by pretty all of Deut. chapter 1 of the Hebrew text).
- First, knowing the text was spoken and later written in Hebrew. Knowing that the source of the text itself comes from Israelis/Jews who are descendants of the generation who the words were spoken to and received the written version. Second, knowing that various Israeli/Jewish communities have been for the last several thousand years doing/living by/and transmitting internally the information found in the text.
- Additionally, there both Karaite and Samaritan communities have the same or similar texts and similar cultures.
- Israelis/Jews from the most ancient Jewish communities who have texts and cultures that are considered the most ancient, authoratative, and authentic sources of information of the Torah.
Also, see Sefer Yehoshua (Book of Joshua) chapter 1:1-9 and Sefer Yehoshua (Book of Joshua) chapter 24:31.
Which Jews do feel claim to have read the NT but refer to other works? Also, what other works? Also, consider our perspective - what evidence do we Jews have that the NT (as modern Christians have it) is a valid source of information that we should even consider? Thus, we can't put the authorship issues aside because we are required to start right there.
Concerning your question. Yes, I have read the book of Acts. Let's for example start at Acts 2:1-11. Can you show me a source for Jews from the regions mentioned that witnessed this event? I.e. Jews from Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, Cretans and Arabs. Do you know of any Jews from these areas who claim to have been eye-witnesses to this event as Acts states it?
So why did the writers of Matt 1 and Luke 3 try to link Jesus to David who was a Jewish king and said that he was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:6-7)?
Then maybe the prophecy can speak of both the earthly and heavenly; of both Joshua son of Nun, the earthly, and the Messiah, the heavenly.
Moses was chosen to deliver the covenant of Law to Israel. Moses, representing the law, was intentionally prevented from leading the Israelites into the Promised Land. Joshua represents a new way, but only in 'type'. 'For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day'. [Hebrews 4]
The day of rest, to be provided by the Messiah, was not delivered by Joshua. He died, and Israel eventually fell to foreign powers.
This confirms in my mind that the Prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy should have the unblemished lens of a Moses if he is to speak in the name of God. As it says, 'I will' 'put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.' [Deut. 18:18]
I raised the issue of prophecy with IndigoChild because she stated in another thread that the words of the Prophets and Writings are humanly inspired and not divinely inspired. Maybe you agree?
If a visionary is only seeing a blurred image, how can you rely upon the words spoken in their name? This is not the way that I understand God to work, or the manner in which He impresses his word and message on the minds of his chosen messengers!
It seems to me that different Jews view the Torah, Prophets and Writings quite differently.
Do you think the Prophet of Deuteronomy 18:18,19 is a reference to the Messiah [as in Ezekiel 34:23]?