Moses said, Unto him ye shall hearken

[YoursTrue]

The authors of the NT claim that Jesus argued with religious leaders about "scripture." There is no evidence from a valid Jewish source, or Roman source, that anyone killed him for that. There are even debates, even among Christians, about the historacity of the the gospels to begin with. Besides the NT claims that the Romans killed him. The NT, as a text, meets the standards that Christians have set forth but not ones the Torah set forth for Jews to hold by.

And the writers of the Torah said that there were those claiming to worship God who also argued with Moses, and other prophets. So?

 

[YoursTrue]

The authors of the NT claim that Jesus argued with religious leaders about "scripture." There is no evidence from a valid Jewish source, or Roman source, that anyone killed him for that. There are even debates, even among Christians, about the historacity of the the gospels to begin with. Besides the NT claims that the Romans killed him. The NT, as a text, meets the standards that Christians have set forth but not ones the Torah set forth for Jews to hold by.

He wasn't killed for arguing over scripture.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Are his admirers still in the graveyard looking for his resurrection?

No. The small number of Chabadnics who beleive Rabbi Schneerson is mashiahh don't go to his grave because they think he will rise from his grave. They beleive something different about how they think he is still mashiahh even given the great amount evidence that he is definately not mashiahh including the words of the Rambam that any man of the proven House of David liniage an does some of the things but dies before completing is definately not mashiahh.

Also, there are many Chabadnicim who go to Rabbi Schneerson grave and don't beleive he is mashiahh.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

And the writers of the Torah said that there were those claiming to worship God who also argued with Moses, and other prophets. So?

So, indeed. Like I said, the claims of the NT authors acceptable to Christians and not acceptable to Torath Mosheh Jews.

Based on what you seem to be implying the Hebrew text of the Torah and how it was trasmitted by Israelis/Jews throughout the generations to future generations of Israelis/Jews is not accetable to Christians. I think I can speak for most of the Jews of the world in saying that we don't have a problem with Christians having that concept. Of course, if that is what you are saying.

 

[YoursTrue]

No. The small number of Chabadnics who beleive Rabbi Schneerson mashiahh don't go to his grave because they think he will rise from his grave. They beleive something different about how they think he is still mashiahh even given the great amount evidence that he is definately not mashiahh including the words of the Rambam that any man of the proven House of David liniage an does some of the things but dies before completing is definately not mashiahh.

Also, there are many Chabadnicim who go to Rabbi Schneerson grave and don't beleive he is mashiahh.

So then are you waiting, looking for something, or do you think things will go on as they always have been?

 

[YoursTrue]

So, indeed. Like I said, the claims of the NT authors acceptable to Christians and not acceptable to Torath Mosheh Jews.

Based on what you seem to be implying the Hebrew text of the Torah and how it was trasmitted by Israelis/Jews throughout the generations to future generations of Israelis/Jews is not accetable to Christians. I think I can speak for most of the Jews of the world in saying that we don't have a problem with Christians having that concept. Of course, if that is what you are saying.

I realize that. But Moses did have his detractors, did he not? So did Elijah. Of course I could go on. And that's only from "their own people."

 

[Ehav4Ever]

He wasn't killed for arguing over scripture.

Earlier you wrote: "Ok recognizing your position, I say with respect that even Jesus argued with the religious 'leaders' regarding the scriptures. Anyway, they killed him."

Did you mean something else? If this is what the NT authors wrote, like I wrote before. We Jews don't hold by that story and we hold that the NT contains a lot of inaccurate information about the 2nd Temple period.

 

[YoursTrue]

Earlier you wrote: "Ok recognizing your position, I say with respect that even Jesus argued with the religious 'leaders' regarding the scriptures. Anyway, they killed him."

Did you mean something else? If this is what the NT authors wrote, like I wrote before. We Jews don't hold by that story and we hold that the NT contains a lot of inaccurate information about the 2nd Temple period.

And many believe the OT contains inaccuracies. And fables. In fact, I have met Jews who celebrate Passover but don't believe it happened.

 

[Rival]

So then are you waiting, looking for something, or do you think things will go on as they always have been?

We are still waiting for mashiach.

So yes, until then the world goes on as it always has.

Kind of funny really since it means your Christ changed literally nothing.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So then are you waiting, looking for something, or do you think things will go on as they always have been?

If you are asking what Jews say will happen in the future, here goes.

1. There was a time where Jews were not allowed to live in or go to Israel. That sitaution has changed.
2. There was a time where a large number of Jewish communities were held hostage in some unfriend host countries, in some cases not allowed to leave even in the face of an oncoming progroms. That situation has dramatically changed.
3. There was a time when a large number of Spainish/Portuguese Jews were forced to covert to Christianity or were tortured or killing by the inquisitions. That situation has changed and there are a number of descendants of coverted Jews who are returning to the Torah and the Jewish community.
4. Going forward - there has been a big push by various Torah based Jewish leaders to convince secular or converted Jews to return to Torath Mosheh. Rabbis and organization such Rabbi Amnon Ytzhaq of Shofar, Rabbi Zamir of Hitdabroot, Aish HaTorah, Mechon Meir, OutReach Judaism, Jews for Judaism, etc. have been very successful in this regard.
5. There are positions held by the Sages of Israel, from before the last 800 years or more, that when there are a enough Jews actually living in Israel and when Israeli Jews start to return to the Torah more and more Hashem will strengthen an Israeli Jew of Davidic descent, that can be proven by a Mosaic Court, who is strong/wise/an expert in the Torah and halakha (Jewish Law) and he will become a strong leader able to unite Jews in Israel under the Torah and halakha.
6. There will be a Mosaic court of 71 in Israel that will be reformed and lead the halakhic process of the Torah.
7. This same Israeli Jewish leader will cause Jews to return to the land of Israel. He will cause the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem.
8. Israel, from top to bottom, will be seen as keeping the mitzvoth of the Torah as it was given at Mount Sinai and then a conflict called (גוג ומגוג).
9. When the conflict is settled and the Torah based kingdom is still standing the world knows that Hashem is Hashem, and the reality of what the Torah says about Hashem, world peace. Nations able to deal with each other in a more truthful manner and so on.

The rest is just commentary.

 

[YoursTrue]

We are still waiting for mashiach.

So yes, until then the world goes on as it always has.

Kind of funny really since it means your Christ changed literally nothing.

He did change many things. But as some say, the best is yet to come.

 

[YoursTrue]

If you are asking what Jews say will happen in the future, here goes.

1. There was a time where Jews were not allowed to live in or go to Israel. That sitaution has changed.
2. There was a time where a large number of Jewish communities were held hostage in some unfriend host countries, in some cases not allowed to leave even in the face of an oncoming progroms. That situation has dramatically changed.
3. There was a time when a large number of Spainish/Portuguese Jews were forced to covert to Christianity or were tortured or killing by the inquisitions. That situation has changed and there are a number of descendants of coverted Jews who are returning to the Torah and the Jewish community.
4. Going forward - there has been a big push by various Torah based Jewish leaders to convince secular or converted Jews to return to Torath Mosheh. Rabbis and organization such Rabbi Amnon Ytzhaq of Shofar, Rabbi Zamir of Hitdabroot, Aish HaTorah, Mechon Meir, OutReach Judaism, Jews for Judaism, etc. have been very successful in this regard.
5. There are positions held by the Sages of Israel, from before the last 800 years or more, that when there are a enough Jews actually living in Israel and when Israeli Jews start to return to the Torah more and more Hashem will strengthen an Israeli Jew of Davidic descent, that can be proven by a Mosaic Court, who is strong/wise/an expert in the Torah and halakha (Jewish Law) and he will become a strong leader able to unite Jews in Israel under the Torah and halakha.
6. There will be a Mosaic court of 71 in Israel that will be reformed and lead the halakhic process of the Torah.
7. This same Israeli Jewish leader will cause Jews to return to the land of Israel. He will cause the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem.
8. Israel, from top to bottom, will be seen as keeping the mitzvoth of the Torah as it was given at Mount Sinai and then a conflict called (גוג ומגוג).
9. When the conflict is settled and the Torah based kingdom is still standing the world knows that Hashem is Hashem, and the reality of what the Torah says about Hashem, world peace. Nations able to deal with each other in a more truthful manner and so on.

The rest is just commentary.

And death? What will happen to death?

 

[YoursTrue]

So, indeed. Like I said, the claims of the NT authors acceptable to Christians and not acceptable to Torath Mosheh Jews.

Based on what you seem to be implying the Hebrew text of the Torah and how it was trasmitted by Israelis/Jews throughout the generations to future generations of Israelis/Jews is not accetable to Christians. I think I can speak for most of the Jews of the world in saying that we don't have a problem with Christians having that concept. Of course, if that is what you are saying.

There are many interpretations of scripture among the churches. Some are quite contradictory to what God Almighty is, and what He will do.

 

[Rival]

He did change many things. But as some say, the best is yet to come.

Name one thing.

And I mean one thing you needn't be a Christian to see.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

And many believe the OT contains inaccuracies. And fables. In fact, I have met Jews who celebrate Passover but don't believe it happened.

Given that I don't read from an OT I can't comment on what inaccuracies and fables that exist in it. I guessing you have found inaccurances and fables in the Christian English OT, right?

There have always been Jews who celebrate stuff they don't beleive in. Funny enough, there is language/statements in even the most Reform Passover seder where they are saying that it did happen. One would think if they truly didn't beleive it happened they would erase clear statements in their texts that say it did. For example, the following shows up even in secular Jewish Passover seder books.

בִבְהִילוּ יָּצָּאנוּ מִמִּצְרַיִם​

(Translation) In a hurry we left Egypt....

Funny, isn't it?

I know people who pay their taxes and don't beleive in the government they are paying them to.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

There are many interpretations of scripture among the churches. Some are quite contradictory to what God Almighty is, and what He will do.

I don't have a stake in Church interpretations and and contradictions. In my opinion, that is something the Churches have to resolve among themselves.

 

[YoursTrue]

Name one thing.

And I mean one thing you needn't be a Christian to see.

I in this case can only speak for myself.so I don't expect you to see it now as I do. I make a personal statement. But I was not always a Christian. To follow Christ means to live as he lived as much as possible, and die as he died if that is what is to be, and to look forward to everlasting life in Gan Eden. New heavens and new earth, no more death, no more war, no sorrow. Isaiah.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't have a stake in Church interpretations and and contradictions. In my opinion, that is something the Churches have to resolve among themselves.

I am only telling you so you don't think everyone is right. You are judging when you agree or don't agree.

 

[YoursTrue]

Given that I don't read from an OT I can't comment on what inaccuracies and fables that exist in it. I guessing you have found inaccurances and fables in the Christian English OT, right?

There have always been Jews who celebrate stuff they don't beleive in. Funny enough, there is language/statements in even the most Reform Passover seder where they are saying that it did happen. One would think if they truly didn't beleive it happened they would erase clear statements in their texts that say it did. For example, the following shows up even in secular Jewish Passover seder books.

בִבְהִילוּ יָּצָּאנוּ מִמִּצְרַיִם​

(Translation) In a hurry we left Egypt....

Funny, isn't it?

I know people who pay their taxes and don't beleive in the government they are paying them to.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. In fact if it does make sense you are telling me you don't understand. Shalom.

 

[YoursTrue]

Given that I don't read from an OT I can't comment on what inaccuracies and fables that exist in it. I guessing you have found inaccurances and fables in the Christian English OT, right?

There have always been Jews who celebrate stuff they don't beleive in. Funny enough, there is language/statements in even the most Reform Passover seder where they are saying that it did happen. One would think if they truly didn't beleive it happened they would erase clear statements in their texts that say it did. For example, the following shows up even in secular Jewish Passover seder books.

בִבְהִילוּ יָּצָּאנוּ מִמִּצְרַיִם​

(Translation) In a hurry we left Egypt....

Funny, isn't it?

I know people who pay their taxes and don't beleive in the government they are paying them to.

People say lots of things they don't believe in, especially when reading others out loud in a ceremony. I used the term OT because you said NT. I say it again, shalom