Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
That really doesn't answer any of my questions, Joe. That's a cop-out. Period.joeboonda said:I know because I have studied it, how do you know?
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That really doesn't answer any of my questions, Joe. That's a cop-out. Period.joeboonda said:I know because I have studied it, how do you know?
How ya gonna know learn about God if ya dont read his book?jonny said:God is my final authority. I will never put belief in a book above belief in God.
THanks for your opinion its always so nice, I have taken a lot of time tonite to put some verses out and I am sorry if I dont write a ten thousand word essay every time you say jumpKatzpur said:That really doesn't answer any of my questions, Joe. That's a cop-out. Period.
What in the world would make you think jonny doesn't read and study the Bible as much as you do? That fact is, Joe, there are over 30,000 different Christian denominations, the vast, vast majority of which base their beliefs solely on the Bible and claim to be interpreting it with the aid of the Holy Ghost. How do you explain 30,000 differences of opinion on God's word?joeboonda said:How ya gonna know about God if ya dont read his book?
I never said Jonny doesnt read his Bible. Most of these denominations are pretty close in their core beliefs, with some 'fringe' groups. That is the human element, and error and false teaching. But I believe one can know the truth, don't you?Katzpur said:What in the world would make you think jonny doesn't read and study the Bible as much as you do? That fact is, Joe, there are over 30,000 different Christian denominations, the vast, vast majority of which base their beliefs solely on the Bible and claim to be interpreting it with the aid of the Holy Ghost. How do you explain 30,000 differences of opinion on God's word?
My goal (and I assume it is pretty much the same goal as jonny's and every Latter-day Saint's on this forum) is to educate you as to what we really believe and why. We don't expect to convert you, and if you expect to convert us, you're wasting your time. But this whole discussion got started because of your misconceptions about LDS doctrine. We're just trying to clear those misconceptions up.joeboonda said:A little of both, what is your goal?
I don't buy that the core beliefs are pretty close for a second. All proclaim Christ as the Savior, but it pretty much gets mixed from there.joeboonda said:I never said Jonny doesnt read his Bible. Most of these denominations are pretty close in their core beliefs, with some 'fringe' groups. That is the human element, and error and false teaching. But I believe one can know the truth, don't you?
Of course that is the LDS, eh? As I thought. Hope you're right..............nutshell said:I don't buy that the core beliefs are pretty close for a second. All proclaim Christ as the Savior, but it pretty much gets mixed from there.
Of course we believe one can know the truth and we believe truth can be found probably in all these different denominations...even ones outside Christianity. However, there is only one that contains all the truth and is led directly by Jesus Christ himself.
I don't think they are anywhere near as close as you do. First off, Catholics comprise half of the world's 2 billion Christians. Your beliefs don't seem very close to theirs, to me. The Orthodox Churches constitute another large percent and your beliefs aren't like theirs either. I am aware of numerous differences between, say, Anglicans and Baptists, or Pentacostals and Lutherans. I do believe one can know the truth, but why do you think that, believing in the same God, looking to the same Savior, and trusting the same Holy Ghost for guidance, you and I are poles apart in our thinking? If we could all come up with the same answers by reading the Bible, why aren't we?joeboonda said:I never said Jonny doesnt read his Bible. Most of these denominations are pretty close in their core beliefs, with some 'fringe' groups. That is the human element, and error and false teaching. But I believe one can know the truth, don't you?
My goal is to defend my beliefs and to correct your misconceptions. Since you don't care about what I have to say, I'm not going to bother anymore though. I would never attempt to destroy someone else's faith. I find that to be a pathetic waste of my time.joeboonda said:A little of both, what is your goal?
I have read "his book." Thanks for asking. I learn how God has interacted with other people through "his book." I learn how God interacts with me through my personal experiences. Like I said, God is my final authority - not the book. How God interacts with me in my life is much more important than anything I could ever read. Don't get me wrong, the Bible is important, but I see it as a compass to point me in the right direction.joeboonda said:How ya gonna know learn about God if ya dont read his book?
I'd read your "long" posts, but you don't seem to return the favor, so I won't worry about your "long" posts anymore. Hope you don't mind. I'm sure another LDS poster will play with you though. :sarcasticjoeboonda said:Hey all, I gotta sign off for now, work in the morning and all. Enjoyed the discussions/debates, etc. hope no offenses were made. Please read my 'long' posts with the verse comparisons in them, they should be interesting anyway. I will see you all another day. I love you and pray you have a safe and happy Christmas!
Yay jonny. I would frubal you, but I think I already have recently, but if not you get frubals for the past 3 post you just made.:woohoo:jonny said:I'd read your "long" posts, but you don't seem to return the favor, so I won't worry about your "long" posts anymore. Hope you don't mind. I'm sure another LDS poster will play with you though. :sarcastic
Merry Christmas to you also. :bounce
See, these comprise a straw-man fallacy because the author is supplying the arguments of his opponents. See the part above where he says "Mormons will say..."joeboonda said:Mormons will say this means not to add to the book of Deuteronomy.
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Mormons will say this means not to add to the book of Proverbs. Again if we look at the context it says Every word of God, do not add to His words.
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I ask the Mormons would these curses would be in effect if anyone added or subtracted to the Book of Revelation in any way. Their reply is this would obviously be so.
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Unaware that in the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible: he (Joseph Smith) had added to, or subtracted from the Book of Revelation over 85 times.
HI, good point. My family used to be Catholic, but are now protestants. There are a lot of differences in doctrines within 'christianity', and there are a lot of similarities. Like, I sometimes attend a contemporary service at the Methodist Church, and they teach God's grace and love, as does the Southern Baptist and Lutheran Church I have attended here. They teach from the Bible only though. Of course the Catholic Church recognizes the apocrypha as the Word of God and protestants do not. Just as you recognize your books. But most bible-only churches are pretty close in doctrine, some may say you can lose your salvation, others that you cant, or some may speak in tongues and others believe it is gibberish, or there are differences in the way they hold services and different ceremonies and such, but that has to do a lot with where they came from. A christian from Germany will worship differently than one from the Jungles of Africa, but they both are worshipping God. Most believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose again and is coming back again. Thats the main thing.Katzpur said:I don't think they are anywhere near as close as you do. First off, Catholics comprise half of the world's 2 billion Christians. Your beliefs don't seem very close to theirs, to me. The Orthodox Churches constitute another large percent and your beliefs aren't like theirs either. I am aware of numerous differences between, say, Anglicans and Baptists, or Pentacostals and Lutherans. I do believe one can know the truth, but why do you think that, believing in the same God, looking to the same Savior, and trusting the same Holy Ghost for guidance, you and I are poles apart in our thinking? If we could all come up with the same answers by reading the Bible, why aren't we?
Good point. My family used to be Catholic but is now protestant and has been for some time. The Catholic Church recognizes the aprocrypha in addition to the Bible as you recoginize your books in addition to the Bible, so I won't compare that. But among Bible-only believing churches, the differences are not so major really. We all believe that Jesus died for our sins, rose again, and is coming back again. Now, due to their background or maybe to some different interpretation of scripture, we may have some differences on the lesser issues. Some may believe one can lose their salvation, others do not, or some speak in tongues and others call it gibberish, some baptize by immersion, some by sprinkling, etc. And all worship services are not the same. Like, a church in Germany would have different music and worship styles than one say in the jungles of Africa, but they are still worshipping the same God. I have attended many different denominations, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Non-denominational, and they all teach the love and grace of God. I sometimes attend a contemporary worship service at the Methodist Church, and they teach of God's love and sacrifice of his Son just like the Lutheran and Southern Baptist I attend down the street. They teach Christ crucified as payment for our sin offered as a free gift.Katzpur said:I don't think they are anywhere near as close as you do. First off, Catholics comprise half of the world's 2 billion Christians. Your beliefs don't seem very close to theirs, to me. The Orthodox Churches constitute another large percent and your beliefs aren't like theirs either. I am aware of numerous differences between, say, Anglicans and Baptists, or Pentacostals and Lutherans. I do believe one can know the truth, but why do you think that, believing in the same God, looking to the same Savior, and trusting the same Holy Ghost for guidance, you and I are poles apart in our thinking? If we could all come up with the same answers by reading the Bible, why aren't we?
Hmmm, kettle calling the pot black I think. With reference to your Book of Morman, do you, yourself, believe everything you read ?Katzpur said:Joe,
You actually believe everything you read, don't you?
Kathryn
Hey jonny, I do care about what you have to say, even if I am slow to answer everything. I have read the links you posted, too. I don't want to destroy your faith, that is a waste of time. I am trying to understand your beliefs and share my beliefs and disbeliefs too. I know I throw stuff out there to see what your answers to them are, we all offer our reasons and info, but I only want everyone to really examine our beliefs and get closer to truth. Anyway, sorry if that is how I seem to you, I will try to do better, you are a nice person and I have enjoyed reading your answers to my questions and posts.jonny said:My goal is to defend my beliefs and to correct your misconceptions. Since you don't care about what I have to say, I'm not going to bother anymore though. I would never attempt to destroy someone else's faith. I find that to be a pathetic waste of my time.