psychoslice
Veteran Member
Christianity only has the morals they have today, only because they had to drop all that which wasn't moral, such as owning slaves.
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It is the responsibility of the OP either to revise the post or name the first philosopher, who was not a religious figure, who wrote something on morals that spread far and wide. Before such a person; was every human an immoral person?So we should mention Socrates and Plato, and before then the authors of the Babilonian Epic of Gilgamesh; the Greek Homer; the Nordic Eddas' authors and, sure several other nam,es that are usually associated with religion.
No, you're not turning this around. What is the evidence for your claim? If it is dependent on my personal opinions, it's not evidence for your claim. So are you making a claim, or not? There's no point in producing a "counter" example if there is no example. What "advanced animal societies" have demonstrable rules against murder, and how can you demonstrate that those animals had atheist philosophies? And when did humans acquire this rule from those societies of animals, and how can you demonstrate that those societies were atheist?
Don't worry, you don't actually have to produce all that. That you aren't sure whether the rule is "thousands" or "millions" of years old makes it clear that you are speculating, not deducing. And they have a word for folks who speculate on the basis of belief whether or not evidence can support that belief...
And no, a premonotheistic society proves nothing. You said "religion", not monotheism. If you're changing your argument because you knew you couldn't defend it, be honest about it.
Here's an equal opportunity challenge for folks from any religion:
Can you name a moral that originated from a religion?
As far as I know, the morals stated in scripture were stolen from the known philosophies of the time. This is an important question, because one of religion's major claims is that mankind would be adrift if not for supernaturally "gifted" morals. If - in fact - religions' morals were not original, then that claim is groundless...
So I agree, the origins of morality are murky at best. But what we know for sure is that they weren't originally revealed by a modern god.
Who was the first philosopher? Please name him and at what time he lived?
Regards
Here's an equal opportunity challenge for folks from any religion:
Can you name a moral that originated from a religion?
As far as I know, the morals stated in scripture were stolen from the known philosophies of the time. This is an important question, because one of religion's major claims is that mankind would be adrift if not for supernaturally "gifted" morals. If - in fact - religions' morals were not original, then that claim is groundless...
The greatest tragedy in mankind’s entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion. —Arthur C. Clarke
Science . . . has been accused of undermining morals— but wrongly. The ethical behavior of man is better based on sympathy, education and social relationships, and requires no support from religion. Man’s plight would, indeed, be sad if he had to be kept in order through fear of punishment and hope of rewards after death. —Albert Einstein
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. —Steven Weinberg
“…. Too often religion has been an aphrodisiac for horror, a Benzedrine for bestiality. At its best it has lifted spirits and raised spires. At its worst it has turned entire civilizations into cemeteries". —Phillip Adams
I don't think founding morals is what's important here, but it is promoting them and having them as part of organized teachings and practices. Religion is something that makes people devoted and devotion to morals makes them taken, applied and considered seriously.
It is the responsibility of the OP either to revise the post or name the first philosopher, who was not a religious figure, who wrote something on morals that spread far and wide. Before such a person; was every human an immoral person?
OP is simply wrong.
Regards
Timeline of Philosophers - Classical | History of Philosophy without any gaps
Timeline of Philosophers - Later antiquity | History of Philosophy without any gaps
Timeline of Philosophers - The Islamic World | History of Philosophy without any gaps
Timeline of Philosophers - Medieval | History of Philosophy without any gaps
Here's an equal opportunity challenge for folks from any religion:
Can you name a moral that originated from a religion?
As far as I know, the morals stated in scripture were stolen from the known philosophies of the time. This is an important question, because one of religion's major claims is that mankind would be adrift if not for supernaturally "gifted" morals. If - in fact - religions' morals were not original, then that claim is groundless...
Here's an equal opportunity challenge for folks from any religion:
Can you name a moral that originated from a religion?
As far as I know, the morals stated in scripture were stolen from the known philosophies of the time. This is an important question, because one of religion's major claims is that mankind would be adrift if not for supernaturally "gifted" morals. If - in fact - religions' morals were not original, then that claim is groundless...
Thanks for providing the information.
So the first philosopher as per the above information is Hesiod who lived in 7th century. BC.
If we go byf the OP, the first philosopher who gave morality to the world happened to exist in the 7th century BC.
So before Hesiod nobody knew anything about morality. Is that a correct premise?
I don't think so.
Regards
I'm not sure I see how you're connecting the dots here?...
How is it that you get from religion to taking morals seriously? Is it your opinion of humanity that we are inherently immoral?
You can't ''steal'' morals.
How does this tie in to your claims of theft and groundlessness?mestemia -
At what point does a behavior become common knowledge? In my experience on PR and listening to countless debates between the religious and atheists, a question brought up over and over again by the religious takes the form: "if you atheists don't have my god to guide you, how do you know right from wrong?'.
Are you saying you aren't familiar with this line of debate?
Yes I've got this quite a few times, even here on RF.I'll ask you the same question: Have you not heard - hundreds of times when a religious person is debating an atheist: "If you don't believe in my god, how can you know right from wrong?"
If a religion makes one do supposedly bad things without questioning just because that religion tells them to do it, which is something some non-religious people use to criticize religious people, mind you, why wouldn't the same standard be considered for supposedly good things the religious people have in their religion; e.g. good morals found in that religion? If not, it would be a double standard.