Morals were stolen by religions, not created by them

[icehorse]

Here's an equal opportunity challenge for folks from any religion:

Can you name a moral that originated from a religion?

As far as I know, the morals stated in scripture were stolen from the known philosophies of the time. This is an important question, because one of religion's major claims is that mankind would be adrift if not for supernaturally "gifted" morals. If - in fact - religions' morals were not original, then that claim is groundless...

 

[LuisDantas]

Here's an equal opportunity challenge for folks from any religion:

Can you name a moral that originated from a religion?

I'm not sure the question quite makes sense. To a large extent dealing with morals was what made religions such back in the day.

As far as I know, the morals stated in scripture were stolen from the known philosophies of the time.

That is mainly a perception thing, I think. It took quite a long while for a reasonably clear distinction between philosophy and religion to be developed.

This is an important question, because one of religion's major claims is that mankind would be adrift if not for supernaturally "gifted" morals.

Well, that claim is just empty. The supernatural only muddles things.

If - in fact - religions' morals were not original, then that claim is groundless...

I'm not sure why that would be.

 

[icehorse]

Hey Luis,

I don't buy the idea that our morals come from deities. I'm questioning claims made by the religious that without deity-originated morals we'd be adrift.

 

[Quintessence]

"Stolen?" Since when could anything or anyone "own" morals? I'm confused.

 

[Politesse]

You're talking as though there are these "morals" that exist and can be traded. Do you mean specific moral rules? Because those obviously differ between religious traditions. There may be broad similarities, but morality is and always has been a contextual affair; I don't think you could even understand the moral world of a 2nd century Roman, for instance, much less "copy" the moral rules of a classical Stoic.

Maybe you should give us an example of one of these "morals" you're claiming come from non-religious sources, and yet are reproduced in religious circles?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Religions "stole" morality in the same way that any culture, movement, or philosophy borrows from others.

 

[Politesse]

Hey Luis,

I don't buy the idea that our morals come from deities. I'm questioning claims made by the religious that without deity-originated morals we'd be adrift.

One of the problems you get when responding to invisible enemies is that you don't make their claims quite the way they would. I doubt very much that the kind of person you are trying to rebut would see the man-made trappings of "religion" as the source of the laws that God put upon the world. The usual claim is that atheists are immoral due to their distance from the source of moral law, i.e. God. Not that morals don't exist in their vicinity. To say that there are no morals "before religion" or outside of religion would be tantamount to claiming that God is not the source of moral law in the universe. And it would undermine the conservative Christian version of salvation, which rests on the assumption that we are all ultimately culpable for our sins, whether we know about them or not.

 

[Iti oj]

Here's an equal opportunity challenge for folks from any religion:

Can you name a moral that originated from a religion?

As far as I know, the morals stated in scripture were stolen from the known philosophies of the time. This is an important question, because one of religion's major claims is that mankind would be adrift if not for supernaturally "gifted" morals. If - in fact - religions' morals were not original, then that claim is groundless...

a victim marrying her rapist?

 

[Iti oj]

Religions "stole" morality in the same way that any culture, movement, or philosophy borrows from others.

yes! but im not constantly told i need those things to have morals or that morals originate from them .

 

[LuisDantas]

Hey Luis,

I don't buy the idea that our morals come from deities.

Nor do I, you know that.

I'm questioning claims made by the religious that without deity-originated morals we'd be adrift.

I don't think those are fair specimens of religious people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

yes! but im not constantly told i need those things to have morals or that morals originate from them .

There have been plenty of cultures, philosophies, and other things that have believed they are morally superior, and necessary to be a moral/good person.

 

[icehorse]

a victim marrying her rapist?

touche

 

[icehorse]

I don't think those are fair specimens of religious people.

Luis, seriously? You haven't heard arguments to this effect many, many times?

 

[Iti oj]

There have been plenty of cultures, philosophies, and other things that have believed they are morally superior, and necessary to be a moral/good person.

i said i'm not constantly told.

the op is a clear rebuttal to a particular claim . you seem to be purposely missing the point.

 

[icehorse]

One of the problems you get when responding to invisible enemies is that you don't make their claims quite the way they would. I doubt very much that the kind of person you are trying to rebut would see the man-made trappings of "religion" as the source of the laws that God put upon the world. The usual claim is that atheists are immoral due to their distance from the source of moral law, i.e. God. Not that morals don't exist in their vicinity. To say that there are no morals "before religion" or outside of religion would be tantamount to claiming that God is not the source of moral law in the universe. And it would undermine the conservative Christian version of salvation, which rests on the assumption that we are all ultimately culpable for our sins, whether we know about them or not.

How ever were we able to stumble around and survive without revelation?

 

[LuisDantas]

Luis, seriously? You haven't heard arguments to this effect many, many times?

I have. I am sorry that so many people make those claims. Religion is supposed to be better than that.

 

[paarsurrey]

Here's an equal opportunity challenge for folks from any religion:

Can you name a moral that originated from a religion?

As far as I know, the morals stated in scripture were stolen from the known philosophies of the time. This is an important question, because one of religion's major claims is that mankind would be adrift if not for supernaturally "gifted" morals. If - in fact - religions' morals were not original, then that claim is groundless...

Who was the first philosopher? Please name him and at what time he lived?
Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

Who was the first philosopher? Please name him and at what time he lived?
Regards

Logically, philosophy must have developed to some degree in most any community with enough of a culture, often independently and at the same time. Most of those will be lost to the sands of time, so we have to speculate and work with those that left a record of some kind.

For the purposes of this thread, we are apparently talking about moral philosophy specifically, and that helps in restricting the possible answers slightly.

So we should mention Socrates and Plato, and before then the authors of the Babilonian Epic of Gilgamesh; the Greek Homer; the Nordic Eddas' authors and, sure several other nam,es that are usually associated with religion.

 

[Iti oj]

Who was the first philosopher? Please name him and at what time he lived?
Regards

strawmen, code of Hammurabi predates religious texts

 

[McBell]

..., then that claim is groundless...

You mean like the title of this thread?