• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Morality

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
I have heard quite a few thoughts from atheists as well as religious people regarding where we get morality and how.


My question: Where and how do animals get their morals?


I suppose, animals may not have morality, but if that were the case, why not?


Why only humans?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Most, if not all mammals seem to me to have some sort of morality. I believe it's a trait that developes in groups.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Do humans actually have morality? Can we prove this in any meaningful way?

It's not proof but if we didn't have morality we'd still be living in the trees in Africa. Morality allowed us to band together, create civilization, creat religion which in turn stole morality and bastardised it to omit those who don't worship the god
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
I have heard quite a few thoughts from atheists as well as religious people regarding where we get morality and how.


My question: Where and how do animals get their morals?


I suppose, animals may not have morality, but if that were the case, why not?


Why only humans?

We can't know if other animas have morality or not. We can't read their thoughts, we can only observe their behaviors. Morals, while derived from an instinctive urge, are consciously designed and reasoned social constructs that can be argued and debated. The overwhelming majority of animals don't seem to be able to design, argue and debate social constructs so its very unlikely that any animals have morals and a sense of morality though it could be possible We simply can't know it and shouldn't assume it either.
 

AlexanderG

Active Member
It's very well explained by evolution. Some animals species evolved to be social, namely to live and cooperate together. This gives a lot of survival advantages, from having sentries and protectors against danger, to sharing food, to specialized roles, to having communal help raising your young.

In social species like wolves, monkeys, certain bird species, dolphins, gophers, horses, etc, there is natural selective pressure to evolve behaviors that benefit the group, and selective pressure against behavior that harms the group. Individuals that act against the group will usually be ostracized from the group, upon which they are alone and typically die before reproducing. Individuals that are viewed favorably by others will be more likely to reproduce more. Human teenagers, for example, who are biologically at a prime reproductive age, are especially sensitive about being accepted by their peers.

For these reasons, we have evolved traits like empathy, guilt, a sense for the motives of others, and a sense of fairness. As we would expect, these traits are expressed on a spectrum among individuals, from psychopaths on one end to empathetic, gentle helpers on the other. Just like people can be very short or tall on the spectrum of physical height.

The larger the brain of the social species, the more complex the moral behavior we can observe. Naturalism explains it all very well. There are for example scientific studies comparing the capacity to sense fairness in different animal species, and we see it becoming a more complex dynamic going from dogs, to apes, to humans.

It's true that some of us feel like there is an "objective morality" but I've never been able to pin down a theist on what one of these objective morals actually is. Really, I challenge you to find any moral position that everyone agrees on, and that no one has ever violated. There are definitely moral stances that virtually everyone agrees on, but this just means these notions are central to virtually all forms of successful socialization.
 
Last edited:

Orbit

I'm a planet
I have heard quite a few thoughts from atheists as well as religious people regarding where we get morality and how.


My question: Where and how do animals get their morals?


I suppose, animals may not have morality, but if that were the case, why not?


Why only humans?

IMO: Morality is based in empathy. To the extent that a human has empathy, they have an inborn morality. We are also wired to be social; without empathy the social group would fall apart. As far as animals, higher primates exhibit highly social interaction, and an ability to take on the role of "other" (pre-requisites for empathy). So if you find morality in animals, I think you would first find its precursors in the primates, our nearest evolutionary relatives. As far as dogs and cats, they don't have the brainpower for such abstract thought, so I'd say no, they don't have morality. And as a last comment, I have to point out that ultimately "morality" is a human construct/concept that can't necessarily be defined in just one way.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I have heard quite a few thoughts from atheists as well as religious people regarding where we get morality and how.


My question: Where and how do animals get their morals?


I suppose, animals may not have morality, but if that were the case, why not?


Why only humans?

Social animals often express empathy and even fairness among their pack group.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
The situation of living, logically necessitates the need for morality. However if people ever feel empathy and love it goes beyond logical necessity and roots itself in what we desire for others as well as ourselves.

It's a brute fact that virtues produce quality of life, and vices undermine society and well being.
Since morals are about trustworthiness, and deserves people can rise above and make life worthwhile or sink below and undermine all honest efforts. I never had a problem seeing those that deserve more do better than me.

Animals are tribal, and their situation is dire. Fear, hunger, risk and reward, along with a basic understanding of empathy is what motivates some animals.

Universal morality vs. preferential morality; favoring certain groups or ideologies. If we don't adopt a universal morality based in virtues we will go extinct sooner than our time.

My religious inclination is that honest compassion, levels of shared equality among all people, and charity forms the highest sense of morality and desire to be moral. If only the systems and the people of earth would only come to realize this then we'd see more reward for selflessness and it wouldn't always be a matter of self gain, and preservation. It would be about making life better for all.

The situation and reality of life and systems we have for society reflect the animal nature of humanity. Can we ever rise above that? Transcendence is not easy. Selfishly driven problems have to be expected because they dominate.

There are levels of morality, enlightenment being the hardest to attain. Humans have the opportunity to reach for higher morals because of intellect; science, and philosophical advancement. But the animal nature makes that very tough indeed. On top of that reality isn't ideal for life and chasing ideals is even harder because of that.

Morality comes from realization, and appreciation. Humans range from enlightened to sinister. Where does that come from? From every possibility of morality and immorality being actualized. The human figurative heart is a powerful thing. And human intellect brings out the best and worst from humanity with regards to morality. More options to choose from being human.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Unless one has the fixed belief that morals simply come from God or anything similar, then one must surely accept that our moral behaviour is mostly an evolved behaviour and most likely stemming from our ability to form groups - that is in social bonding and perhaps in hierarchies - and where such came about so as to benefit the survival of such groups. If one accepts this, why would it be so difficult to also accept that other species might also have moral behaviour, even if more primitive than humans, when we know so many do form similar social groupings as humans once did (small tribes), and also do share so many abilities with humans - as to showing intelligence, planning, and such, and not just behaving instinctually?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I have heard quite a few thoughts from atheists as well as religious people regarding where we get morality and how.


My question: Where and how do animals get their morals?


I suppose, animals may not have morality, but if that were the case, why not?


Why only humans?

Now it depends on what you assume morality is.
If you go by the hurrah-boo theory of morality, then good and bad is notthing but feelings and have nothing to do with truth or rationality in the strong sense. If this theory is correct, then since some animals apparently have feelings, they are moral.
 
Top