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Meet the Saints

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
:D
Do all of them make it to Heaven?
According to Mormon theology, nobody who has died is in Heaven yet (except Jesus). Instead, everyone who has died is currently in a sort of an intermediate realm known as the Spirit World. Yes, it has some things in common with Purgatory, but is not the same thing.

You know the Catholic Church says that every soul that doesn't go to hell is a saint?

That is a lot of Souls...I only hope it is 90% of all people or more...but I fear id be disappointed
I have a hunch you may be very pleasantly surprised. My guess is that the numbers will be well over 99%. That is not to say that all of these individuals will be given the same blessings in Heaven, as greater faithfulness will warrant greater rewards, but Mormon doctrine pretty much believes that the vast, vast majority will end up in Heaven when all is said and done. That's actually because we don't believe that the ability to repent ends at death, but continues in the Spirit World. So yup, there will be lots of "saints" -- Catholics, Mormons, and a whole lot more.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
According to Mormon theology, nobody who has died is in Heaven yet (except Jesus). Instead, everyone who has died is currently in a sort of an intermediate realm known as the Spirit World. Yes, it has some things in common with Purgatory, but is not the same thing.

I have a hunch you may be very pleasantly surprised. My guess is that the numbers will be well over 99%. That is not to say that all of these individuals will be given the same blessings in Heaven, as greater faithfulness will warrant greater rewards, but Mormon doctrine pretty much believes that the vast, vast majority will end up in Heaven when all is said and done. That's actually because we don't believe that the ability to repent ends at death, but continues in the Spirit World. So yup, there will be lots of "saints" -- Catholics, Mormons, and a whole lot more.
The Catholic church does not say they know for sure but say a lot of things that would indicate that a soul can repent and embrace the truth after death, because God is just and loving and would not damn someone to Hell unless the soul was fully enlightened to know they were rejecting the truth and do so anyway , because they hate goodness and God so much that they want to be separated from him. There will be such Souls, because the devil was fully enlightened and yet still rejected God.

I'm glad to hear that Mormons believe that there can be repentance after death because I just don't think it could be right that a soul that doesn't know they are rejecting the truth should be lost for eternity.
 

Baladas

An Págánach
Well, this topic interests me a lot.
While my traditions are both Taoist and Pagan, I'm afraid I am having a hard time narrowing this down.

The easy answer would be Laozi (Lao Tzu), Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu) and Liezi (Lieh Tzu) for starters.
They are generally recognized as the foundational Masters of Daoism.

There are many more masters who could easily qualify as well.
Then there are the countless people who have attained Dao, but had no fame.
In fact, it is often said in Daoist texts that Masters of Dao are overlooked by most people...so it's very hard to answer this from my specific traditions.

I would say that Mahatma Gandhi qualifies, along with Martin Luther King Jr. and Rumi off the top of my head...obviously, I am not a Hindu, a Muslim or a Christian though.
Just highly syncretic.

I am agnostic regarding the specifics of an afterlife.
I've no clue what awaits us after death.
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
In Heathenry/Ásatrú closest equivalent would be the people who exude virtue and various honorable qualities, people who most everybody of similar culture would see as praiseworthy. Ones who have bravery, generosity, good sense of humor, sharp wit, strong loyalty, ability to inspire others, and so on.

What you do and accomplish in life and how you effect the lives of others takes precedence over tranquility of the mind and mystical experience. Being well-rounded in all aspects is highly regarded though.
 

arthra

Baha'i
I put this in the comparative religion thread because I want Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Pagans, and perhaps even Atheists to share their Saints as well. (someone you think demonstrated all the heroic qualities that they deserve Heaven even if you don't believe in Heaven)

Just as there were martyrs and saints in Christianity so were there martyrs and heroes in the Babi-Baha'i dispensation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Bahá'ís#Deaths

http://news.bahai.org/human-rights/iran/the-bahai-question

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2013/11/11/minority-report-why-bahais-face-persecution-in-iran/

A very touching and personal story of Mona Mahmudnizhad:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Mahmudnizhad

As Baha'is we don't "canonize" saints...that is we don't have a formal process to do that but the true stories of the many believers who gave their lives and suffered for their Cause has been documented.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I'm glad to hear that Mormons believe that there can be repentance after death because I just don't think it could be right that a soul that doesn't know they are rejecting the truth should be lost for eternity.
That absolutely makes sense to me. I believe that Mormonism has a lot more in common with Catholicism than it does with Protestantism.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
So when the Church “names” Saints, it is merely recognizing that the person is in heaven.

The only problem with that statement is that people don't go to heaven when they die...they go to the grave and await the resurrection/judgment that Revelation 20 speaks of. There's not a single verse that states "Christians go to heaven when they die." What is stated is that the righteous will go on to paradise on new earth, not heaven (Revelation 21). In other words, all the saints are dead in the ground, just like everyone else that has fallen in death.

I always find it interesting that so many of the Christian faith don't know what is actually in the Bible. I am not debating, just pointing out some biblical facts.
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
The only problem with that statement is that people don't go to heaven when they die...they go to the grave and await the resurrection/judgment that Revelation 20 speaks of. There's not a single verse that states "Christians go to heaven when they die." What is stated is that the righteous will go on to paradise on new earth, not heaven (Revelation 21). In other words, all the saints are dead in the ground, just like everyone else that has fallen in death.

I always find it interesting that so many of the Christian faith don't know what is actually in the Bible. I am not debating, just pointing out some biblical facts.

Revelation 20 does not say that no one went to heaven when they died. There also isn't a single verse that says that Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Revelation 20 does not say that no one went to heaven when they died.

Really? Let's take a look at it...

Rev 20:

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

V11 talks about God.
V12 talks about people being judged regardless of who they were in life. Rich, poor, moral, immoral...all are judged.
V13 is the one you need to pay attention to. Hades (the grave) gave up all who have died. The sea gave up all who have died. Everyone that has ever died was raised up and stands before God for judgment.
V14 is the destruction of death (act of dying) and Hades (the grave). There will be no more dying/death in paradise.
V15 is the destruction of the wicked who are not saved. There is no eternal torment, only annihilation. The wicked will cease to exist in any form.

There also isn't a single verse that says that Christians do not go to heaven when they die.

See 20:13 above.

Or you can read John 3:13 - No one has ascended into heaven, but He [Jesus] who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.


It helps to actually read what's in the Bible, instead of banking on traditional, oral teachings that are erroneous.

Note: once again I am not debating; merely pointing out biblical facts.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Really? Let's take a look at it...

Rev 20:

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

V11 talks about God.
V12 talks about people being judged regardless of who they were in life. Rich, poor, moral, immoral...all are judged.
V13 is the one you need to pay attention to. Hades (the grave) gave up all who have died. The sea gave up all who have died. Everyone that has ever died was raised up and stands before God for judgment.
V14 is the destruction of death (act of dying) and Hades (the grave). There will be no more dying/death in paradise.
V15 is the destruction of the wicked who are not saved. There is no eternal torment, only annihilation. The wicked will cease to exist in any form.



See 20:13 above.

Or you can read John 3:13 - No one has ascended into heaven, but He [Jesus] who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.


It helps to actually read what's in the Bible, instead of banking on traditional, oral teachings that are erroneous.

Note: once again I am not debating; merely pointing out biblical facts.

Yep, Jesus was a Jew, and believed that - ALL - both good and bad, went to Sheol - to await the Messiah and Final Judgment, = for some the second death.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Revelation 20 does not say that no one went to heaven when they died. There also isn't a single verse that says that Christians do not go to heaven when they die.

Actually it does say that.

You are forgetting that Jesus was a Jew, and said he was the Messiah.

In Tanakh - ALL - go to Sheol - to await the Messiah and his Final Judgment.

Look closely at these verses - and realize these were later followers trying to understand what he, and Tanakh taught.

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.


Rev 20:15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire. (second death = permanent.)

Hades is actually Sheol.

They wait in Sheol for the Final Judgment.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Yes, PopeADope, Mother Theresa will be canonized in September of this year is what I've heard, too.

...

There is another thread around here somewhere that lists the reasons she shouldn't be made a saint.

The way she actually treated, and thought of people, being at the top of the list.

*
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
In Heathenry/Ásatrú closest equivalent would be the people who exude virtue and various honorable qualities, people who most everybody of similar culture would see as praiseworthy. Ones who have bravery, generosity, good sense of humor, sharp wit, strong loyalty, ability to inspire others, and so on.
Pretty much the same in Hellenismos, except we go a step further and actually worship our Heroes as Gods, like Heracles, since we believe that humans can become deities. There's stories of both men and women of great virtue being deified by the Gods. Some of them even become constellations in recognition of their great virtue, in the myths.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Saint Juan Diego:
st-juan-diego-w-gold-frame-7x10-2032377.jpg
Juan Diego was born in 1474 in the calpulli or ward of Tlayacac in Cuauhtitlan, which was established in 1168 by Nahua tribesmen and conquered by the Aztec lord Axayacatl in 1467; and was located 20 kilometers (14 miles) north of Tenochtitlan (Mexico City).

On December 9, 1531, a native Mexican named Juan Diego rose before dawn to walk fifteen miles to daily Mass in what is now Mexico City. Juan lived a simple life as a weaver, farmer, and laborer. That morning, as Juan passed Tepeyac Hill, he heard music and saw a glowing cloud encircled by a rainbow. A woman's voice called him to the top of the hill. There he saw a beautiful young woman dressed like an Aztec princess. She said she was the Virgin Mary and asked Juan to tell the bishop to build a church on that site. She said, "I vividly desire that a church be built on this site, so that in it I can be present and give my love, compassion, help, and defense, for I am your most devoted mother . . . to hear your laments and to remedy all your miseries, pains, and sufferings."

The bishop was kind but skeptical. He asked Juan to bring proof of the Lady's identity. Before Juan could go back to the Lady, he found out his uncle was dying. Hurrying to get a priest, Juan missed his meeting with the Lady. The Lady, however, met him on his path and told him that his uncle had been cured.

She then told Juan to climb to the top of the hill where they first met. Juan was shocked to find flowers growing in the frozen soil. He gathered them in his cloak and took them at once to the bishop.

Juan told the bishop what had happened and opened his cloak. The flowers that fell to the ground were Castilian roses (which were not grown in Mexico). But the bishop's eyes were on the glowing image of the Lady imprinted inside Juan's cloak.

Soon after, a church was built on the site where our Lady appeared, and thousands converted to Christianity. Our Lady of Guadalupe was declared the patroness of the Americas.


He died on May 30, 1548, at the age of 74.

Juan Diego deeply loved the Holy Eucharist, and by special permission of the Bishop he received Holy Communion three times a week, a highly unusual occurrence in those times.

Pope John Paul II praised Juan Diego for his simple faith nourished by catechesis and pictured him (who said to the Blessed Virgin Mary: "I am a nobody, I am a small rope, a tiny ladder, the tail end, a leaf") as a model of humility for all of us.

In His Footsteps:
Juan walked fifteen miles to attend Mass every day.
Participate in Mass one day this week that is not a Sunday Mass. If this is impossible, take a long walk outside and notice the miracles of God's love during that walk. You may not see roses in the snow or hear music, but there is plenty to praise God for!


Pope John Paul II - Homily During Juan Diego's Canonization - 31 July 2002

1. I thank you, Father ... that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes; yea, Father, for such was your gracious will" (Mt 11:25-26).

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

These words of Jesus in today's Gospel are a special invitation to us to praise and thank God for the gift of the first indigenous Saint of the American Continent.

With deep joy I have come on pilgrimage to this Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Marian heart of Mexico and of America, to proclaim the holiness of Juan Diego Cuauhtlatoatzin, the simple, humble Indian who contemplated the sweet and serene face of Our Lady of Tepeyac, so dear to the people of Mexico.

Today I address a very affectionate greeting to the many indigenous people who have come from the different regions of the country, representing the various ethnic groups and cultures which make up the rich, multifaceted Mexican reality. The Pope expresses his closeness to them, his deep respect and admiration, and receives them fraternally in the Lord's name."

The basilica is the most visited Catholic pilgrimage site in the world, and the world's third most-visited sacred site

It lead to the conversion of the Aztecs who had previously belonged to Religion that required human sacrifice (heart extraction).

It was the traditional Aztec belief that the sun God necessitated human sacrifice otherwise it would not continue to rise and set or cooperate in the needs of the Indians. •The Aztecs sacrificed 20,000 victims a year and at special events featured sacrifices of as many as 80,000 persons over four days. •These sacrifices did not completely cease until after the Virgin of Guadalupe appeared!

Replicas of Juan Diego’s tilma made with the same type of fiber materials last only a short time before disintegrating. •After almost 500 years Juan’s tilma is still well-preserved with the image of our Lady. This same tilma is on display in the basilica in Mexico City.

It is miraculous that the tilma maintains its structural integrity after nearly 500 years.
•The tilma is made of rather sturdy and resilient hemp fiber

18 to 20 million pilgrims visit the shrine to our Lady of Guadalupe each year. In 1936 a Nobel prize-winning chemist, Dr Richard Kuhn, analysed the fibers and coloring of the tunic. He discovered the color was not of vegetable, mineral, or animal origin and was not of any known earthly element!

In May 1979, a NASA scientist after studying the image concluded “There is no way to explain the quality of the pigments used for the pink dress, the blue veil, the face and hands, their permanence… or the vividness of the colors after several centuries, during which they ordinarily should have deteriorated.


The picture is miraculously “imprinted” onto the tilma and microscopic study attests that there are no brush strokes. •The image is rendered on an unsized canvas. •At very close range one can discern the uneven texture of the handwoven cloth and its apparent transparency – a poor canvas for any sort of “painting”. •Infrared photos completed by Dr. Philip Callahan and Jody B. Smith, University of Florida biophysicist, in 1979 reveal no undersketch.

The tilma resisted a 1791 muriatic acid (an ammonia) spill that could have created a considerable hole – instead only a light staining exists. •In 1921 an anarchist placed a bomb in an offering of flowers that destroyed the shrine but left the image undamaged

Photographers and ophthalmologists have reported minute images reflected in the eyes of the Virgin. •Alfonso Marcué, the Basilica’s official photographer in Mexico city, discovered in 1929 what seemed to be the image of a bearded man, reflected in Mary’s right eye. •More than 20 years later, on May 29, 1951, Jose Carlos Salinas Chavez, rediscovered the same image located on the left eye too

Upon further inspection they said that the reflections are analagous to what is termed the Purkinje-Sansome effect, commonly found only in human eyes. •There are multiple reflections in the exact places and with the proper distortion as they would only appear in human eyes

In the identified images are a small family, an interpreter, another Indian man, and the Bishop himself. •The images within her eyes are only 1/100 of an inch in size. •Her eyes reflected and captured the scene of what was in front of Our Lady in 1531

“Let not your heart be disturbed. Do not fear sickness or anguish. Am I not here, who am your Mother? Are you not under my protection? Am I not your health? Are you not happily within my fold? What else do you wish? Do not grieve nor be disturbed by anything.” (Words of our Lady to Juan Diego)


http://www.academia.edu/7400833/The_Mira..._and_Faith
fedfb18bdb6e3d8132fe2ac0d5daf53e.jpg

The conversion that followed the apparition was the greatest amount of people converting to a single Religion in a short amount of time in History.
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Saint Juan Diego:
...
The conversion that followed the apparition was the greatest amount of people converting to a single Religion in a short amount of time in History.

You realize you are just spamming us with these histories and huge pictures - right?

And that it is against the forum rules?


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Spiderman

Veteran Member
You realize you are just spamming us with these histories and huge pictures - right?

And that it is against the forum rules?


*
I thought a thread about the lives of the Saints like this was okay. I shall contact the staff and if they tell me to cease with this method of posting then I shall do so.

I figured a thread with the Illustrated pictures and the stories of the Saints would be interesting to some people.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I thought a thread about the lives of the Saints like this was okay. I shall contact the staff and if they tell me to cease with this method of posting then I shall do so.

I figured a thread with the Illustrated pictures and the stories of the Saints would be interesting to some people.

Discussing saints - is diferent then spamming a history, and huge pictures of saints.

You started the thread with a spam, - and this last one is spam.

In between we have discussion/debate.

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Spiderman

Veteran Member
Discussing saints - is diferent then spamming a history, and huge pictures of saints.

You started the thread with a spam, - and this last one is spam.

In between we have discussion/debate.

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K..

I like pics because they can speak 1,000 words

my desire for this thread was for people to post information and pics of various Christian, Muslim, Buddhist , Hindu, or others they consider to be Saints that Inspire or impact them spiritually.

If it isnt okay to have that on the forum I shall cease. Thanks for the correction :)
 
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