Marriage Equality: we will never give up.

[Magic Man]

Still the tradition of marriage had nothing to do with the children or love... but power for the parents.

wa:do

Yes, yes, of course. I was just trying to make it even clearer how different it used to be. But the point is still the same. "Traditional marriage" has only been traditional for a century or two at most. Before that, there was a different tradition.

Actually it was very interesting recently. I was watching a show on Rome and its later years. Paganism was the traditional religion that older people were trying to cling to and Christianity was the "liberal" movement of the day trying to change traditions. It was very ironic when juxtapositioned with today's reversal.

 

[painted wolf]

Not to mention the fact that "traditional marriage" varied widely from one culture to another... not just over time.

wa:do

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Paganism was the traditional religion that older people were trying to cling to and Christianity was the "liberal" movement of the day trying to change traditions. It was very ironic when juxtapositioned with today's reversal.

Liberal? I would have said it was more like a fundamentalist take over rather than a move towards liberalism, especially in the conversion of the pagan Celts to Christianity.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... but power for the parents.

A quaint notion. Now, the grab for power is extended to the rights of others.

 

[painted wolf]

A quaint notion. Now, the grab for power is extended to the rights of others.

Why control your own kids when you can control someone elses kids?
Now that is the modern power!

wa:do

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Why control your own kids when you can control someone elses kids?
Now that is the modern power!

wa:do

Just so. The evolution of right wing bigotry is an ongoing process.

 

[Magic Man]

Liberal? I would have said it was more like a fundamentalist take over rather than a move towards liberalism, especially in the conversion of the pagan Celts to Christianity.

I mean in the context of the Roman empire. When it started out, Pagans were the ones who wanted everyone to conform to them, and Christians had a different take. Of course, things changed, but that's the point.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I mean in the context of the Roman empire. When it started out, Pagans were the ones who wanted everyone to conform to them, and Christians had a different take. Of course, things changed, but that's the point.

Sure, but it's strange that you would equate change to liberalism. The pendulum swings both ways you know. At the time I would think that Christianity would have appeared repressive and conservative while the pagans were more open and liberal. From a religious only aspect of course.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

I don't know if it is fair to say that the rise of Christianity must have seemed liked a fundamentalist take over. Yes, morality may have become more stringent in some areas- but that would include basic positive values like education, care of the orphans and the poor, and others which provided the basis for many of the secular humanist institutions in the West today. It is highly symbolic that it was only on account of Christian moralism that the Roman emperors ceased the savage and bloody games in Rome.

Historically speaking, the modern state is marked by the secular sphere gradually taking over spheres which the Church administered to in the name of its mission to human welfare- like health care and education, and I think it would be fair to say the Christian notion of agape largely inspired the ideas of socialized medicine and well fare.

The values and vision of Christianity also preserved civilization in the West in the face of collapse- something encouraged by the barbarian invasions and migrations. Christianity converted them, and to a measure civilized them.

I'm not sure the rise of Christianity could be classified as either left or right.

 

[Father Heathen]

Truly. But if you won't even consider a halfway mark to a better future, the better future might not come for a long time, and that upsets me.

People who ARE bigoted, like some people I know, hear the shouting and pleading for equality, only to simply write it off as whining. Can't we do better than that?

Blacks and women didn't settle for a "halfway mark", so why should homosexuals? People shouldn't have to compromise their equality and liberty. Can't you do better than that?

 

[Buttons*]

Blacks and women didn't settle for a "halfway mark", so why should homosexuals? People shouldn't have to compromise their equality and liberty. Can't you do better than that?

Hello, troll! Good to see you!

 

[Father Heathen]

Hello, troll! Good to see you!

If my correcting ignorant statements causes such emotional distress, stop making them.

 

[J Bryson]

Hello, troll! Good to see you!

I'm staying out of most of this (mostly due to my exhaustion in making the same arguments over and over again), but I have to say that I fail to see how that is trolling.

 

[Buttons*]

If my correcting ignorant statements causes such emotional distress, stop making them.

I had stopped long before you came on here to correct me enjoy your day!

 

[Buttons*]

I'm staying out of most of this (mostly due to my exhaustion in making the same arguments over and over again), but I have to say that I fail to see how that is trolling.

Don't worry, I'm out of here again. I had already stepped out before Father Heathen came in, so I just wanted to let him know that I'd already moved on. No worries.

 

[Father Heathen]

I had stopped long before you came on here to correct me enjoy your day!

Thank you, I will.

 

[Magic Man]

Sure, but it's strange that you would equate change to liberalism. The pendulum swings both ways you know. At the time I would think that Christianity would have appeared repressive and conservative while the pagans were more open and liberal. From a religious only aspect of course.

Why wouldn't I equate liberalism with change? That's a big part of it. Liberals tend to accept change while conservatives reject it. Conservatives tend to want things to stay "traditional", which was the case with Pagans in Rome at the time. They had their gods that they prayed and sacrificed to, and they even forced Christians to make sacrifices upon pain of death at times.

 

[waacman]

Question here: What does a homosexual couple gain by becoming married? This is an honest question, I really mean no offence, because it seems like homosexual people that talk about this are mainly concerned with the "loss of their freedom". Is it that fact that you are being denied the rights you think your deserve (of being able to marry) or is it some other reason i.e. financial, benefits, etc? Pardon my ingnorance on this part of the issue, the question just actually occured to me

 

[Smoke]

Question here: What does a homosexual couple gain by becoming married?

What does a heterosexual couple gain be being married?

Is it that fact that you are being denied the rights you think your deserve (of being able to marry) or is it some other reason i.e. financial, benefits, etc?

Both. All of it. All the reasons straight couples have for wanting to get married are the same reasons gay couples have for wanting to get married.

 

[3.14]

think he means more of

Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Child Custody
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Certain Property Rights
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Visitation of Partner’s Children
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits

most of these can be exploited if gay marriage is legalised,
1 kill a person, just marry the witness to shut him/her up
2 want to get out of work? just marry a sick person
3 want someone's money just marry him/her then kill him/her (if neccacery repeat step 1)