I readily admit I'm biased. I was raised by an atheist, and met far too many hypocritical men and women of faith in my youth. The pastor's daughter single-handedly spread gonorrhea around our small town.
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Many Religions Make for a Better World than One (or None)
- Thread starter Quintessence
- Start date
I can see that is why it is said that the worst enemy of any faith, is the person who claims the faith and lives another way.
What I have found, is that a person can only change themselves. In doing that, others are inspired to change by the example.
That is why I am inspired by who I see as Manifestations of God and people that live virtuous lives searving others. They are very inspirational.
Peace be with you.
Lots of people serve others. Givers come in all sizes and shapes, in all beliefs. One does not need to be an Abrahamic who sees a 'manifestation of God' whatever that means. All you need is a conscience. Seeing it as 'needing this' or needing that' in terms of belief, sets up the 'us versus them' mentality.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
This is simply wrong, and there is proof that it is wrong. That proof being that humans existed an extremely long time before organized religion was even part of their dialogue. The way you tell it, none of us should even be left to have gotten to the point that organized religion and shared, higher-order metaphysical contemplation were on the scene. But guess what? No matter what period of time in history we are talking about - before this God or that God, before anyone even proposed that there might be such a being as a God (you can't claim that God concepts always existed because, let's face it, it wasn't too long ago that they found that isolated tribe that to that day didn't have one) - people were still able to coexist without completely destroying one another. Do you think there wasn't love during any of that time? Do you think no one helped anyone else? Do you think everyone left everyone else to fend for their own? Do you believe that mothers and fathers didn't care for their children? You allow yourself only a very myopic view of life and its place in the world and it is my opinion that it hinders you in no small amount.
I believe that humans are the source of our own virtue - that all ideas and discussion of virtue started with us. That we built on the ideas of our predecessors, and have grown quite a good amount in that regard. This is also evidenced in the other members in the animal kingdom (who I would dare say don't even have a use for a "God concept") who we can also witness possessing some of the exact same virtues we claim for ourselves. Animals of entirely different species showing compassion and raising the lost, helpless young of another animal, animals helping one another in dangerous situations or standing vigilant beside a departed comrade's body in mourning. Like it or not, just as the unvirtuous is intrinsic within us, so is the virtuous. And I remain convinced 100% that God's got absolutely nothing to do with it.
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There have been studies of children found in isolation who have survived without parents or education. These cases would suggest your stance is incorrect. Without nurture and education a human is basically an animal bound to nature.
Humans have always had a Messenger or Message to guide them and even the most ancient cultures had forms of worship. Man has been on earth prior to any records and prior to anything science have found and will find.
All creatures have been created and portray certain virtues from God. It is man who is at the end of material creation and the beginning of spiritual existence, who has been created with the potential of all virtues. This is what is meant to be born again. For us to do away with our animal instincts and take on our spiritual capacity.
Peace be with you always.
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A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
And do those children exhibit no redeeming behavior whatsoever? For example - if they are part of a clan/pack, do they not play with their pack mates? Do they not mourn for losses? Do you know these children's inner-most thoughts? When introduced to other people like themselves, do they only ever react in ways that show a complete incapacity to display love or respect? I don't think the research you may have perused (if you even have) would indicate these answers. Not that I know anything about whatever situations those have been myself - but you are the one making the claim about this research, and I find it hard to believe that you have the relevant details to know that these children are completely immoral little "animals." Especially when I have already mentioned that not even animals display only amoral/immoral behavior. In other words, I call BS, and highly doubt you have anything to back yourself up. I can easily find any number of YouTube videos proving that animals of different species have shown compassion and helped one another. And the fact that we are even here today proves that our ancient ancestors weren't completely immoral, greedy, scum-of-the-earth types who raped and pillaged every chance they got.. So... how about it... any proof of your claims about feral children not displaying any moralistic behavior whatsoever?
This is naive and presumptuous. I'm not even going to take this seriously. It is so easy to prove you wrong - the age of the oldest man-made artifact pales in comparison to the age of the oldest layers of geological strata. There is no contest. And it doesn't even matter if dating methods in this case are wildly inaccurate. All you have to know is that there is a VAST difference in measurement when using the same methods to date both objects to know that the gap is reliably large.
This is pure vanity and human propaganda. Also can't take this seriously. I picture you and God high-fiving as you both stroke each other's egos. Ridiculous.
You are imputing incorrectly a lot that was not said and you are happy with what you see the world as.
Thus I wish you well and peace be with you.
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Segev Moran
Well-Known Member
Exactly!
This is just blatantly false.
Some comments may not yet be proved by science, thus the truth can not be determined either way to all people. But they can not be called false without providing evidence to that accusation.
I can provide writings from God that I get my views from. I do not provide those a lot of the time, unless asked.
Would you like me to provide those?
If not, you are fee to post any civilization that had absolutely no form of worship or tribal belief system. I always consider God is not known by every person, but the Attributes of God are free for all to use.
Peace be with you.
No, please do not 'cut and paste' from Baha'i writings. I've seen enough of that, lol.
There is so much that history on this planer that is pre-written language, pre-recorded. There were 500 distinct societies in North America, another 300 in Australia, another 2000 in Africa, another 2000 in Asia, and you know for a fact that they all had some form of worship. That's Baha'i extended conjecture to the extreme, but still it's your right to believe that.
My own father had no form of worship, as do many people on this planet today. Do you get out much?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Worship was a foreign concept in my family while I was growing up. I'm not even sure I remember it being discussed. Such is the plight of a 3rd generation atheist.
Worship was a foreign concept in my family while I was growing up. I'm not even sure I remember it being discussed. Such is the plight of a 3rd generation atheist.
I didn't know what those strange buildings were. The extent of religion was Dad referring to the neighbour as a 'bible thumper' and of course I had no idea what that was. Then the Gideons gave us all bibles in Grade 5. It stayed in Mom's junk drawer for a few years, before 'disappearing'. A couple (maybe more) of my kids are agnostic/atheist. So in terms of generations, I'm the Hindu sandwiched between atheists. Gosh, I love atheists it seems.
Come to think of it, I recall visualising old men hitting books ... thumping them.
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
We have a bit in common when I went through my Vaisnava fling. That turned a few heads...
I can support my comments with further explanation, but I am happy to leave it there. I could further explain, but as you know, sometines silence is better.
Peace be with you and all.
I'm still turning heads, but it's quite rare I see anyone from my past. I'm pretty Tamilised now.We have a bit in common when I went through my Vaisnava fling. That turned a few heads...
I can support my comments with further explanation, but I am happy to leave it there. I could further explain, but as you know, sometines silence is better.
Peace be with you and all.
Yes, of course you can. I know it too well, I'm afraid.
Worship was a foreign concept in my family while I was growing up. I'm not even sure I remember it being discussed. Such is the plight of a 3rd generation atheist.
My comment was to be understood that a Message is always available. I agree many choose not to look, or do not go beyond what they have learned.
Peace be with you.
So the egalitarian tribe in the middle of the Amazon (and the thousands like it) had a message available to them? They had the internet?
I would suspect the answer I gave would just be a source of amusement. God loves laughter, so happy to give an answer.
I am not aware of Amazon tribal beleifs, so can not comment on those ancient traditions. But the American Indian and Australian Aboriginal who are also ancient cultures, did indeed have guidance from God.
lets use Krishna as an example, as Krishna is closer to home for you.
Krishna gave a Message from God, (many beleive Him to be God) That Message given to a certain audience, is at the same time Universal in its penetration and brings about a new heaven and a new earth.
Receptive souls around the world and in other worlds of God are influenced by that outpouring of Spirit. Thus in an American Native Tribe, the Amazon or in a far away Australia Aboriginal Tribe, a receptive person will be inspired to offer a new vision, or a new path for their people. This inspiration coming from the Message of Krishna.
God gives what enables us to progress to the next level of understanding. I am sure you can see glimpses of simularities in what you have embraced. (Added that for fun, I need a laugh to)
Now imagine the power of a message given by a Messenger that is destined for a world Audience and the influence it exerts.
Peace be with you always.