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Many Religions Make for a Better World than One (or None)

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Every so often, someone will voice the opinion that the world would be better off if everybody followed some particular religion. The reasons why someone supposes this vary somewhat, but essentially boil down to the belief that this religion is the best way or even the only true way. Similar opinions are voiced in the name of irreligion when we hear someone state the world would be better off if nobody followed any religions at all. That opinion also holds the assumption that their way is the best way or perhaps the only true way. In both cases, accepting these opinions as true would mean discarding any potential value that religious diversity has for humanity. That's quite the tall order indeed, as it doesn't take much to recognize that many religions - religious diversity - makes for a better world than one religion or none at all.

There are various ways one could argue the case for this, but I'm going to borrow from an author I read regularly who is the inspiration for this thread. The list below is inspired by that work, but also different from it, but to give credit where credit is due, that article is here (A World With Many Religions is Better Than a World With Only One).

  • All religions have something beautiful to offer. Further, the ways in which these religions are beautiful are different. That is, if you remove any one of them, you loose something amazing. This isn't to say all these religions don't also have their ugly sides, but is it really worth loosing that beauty to remove some blemishes? Talk about throwing out the seeds with the soil.
  • One religion (or none at all) is not a sustainable condition. History shows us what happens when humans lack choices, as our nature begs for options. Attempts at monopolies fail - the authoritarian structure become corrupt over time, and people beg for something different when the monopoly inevitably fails to meet someone's particular needs. One way cannot last and will fragment into many. So why try and force a monopoly of religion (or irreligion) in the first place?
  • There's no way to know if something is the "One True Way". Many hearken to the notion of one religion for all (or no religions for anyone) because they want certainty. There is no such certainty to be had. If there is a "best" or "right" way, we'll never agree on what that is or know if we've found it. We can only know what is "best" or "right" for us and our communities right now... and that answer can chance over time. A monopoly doesn't give you options when your needs change.
Thoughts?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
The religious you or someone else follows shouldn't affect me at all. Unless it does, then we have a problem.

The problem with none or one, I don't see how that could be accomplished without forcing a set of beliefs on folks they might not want.

That's a point the author of the article which inspired this thread didn't really touch upon, but its an important one. They were responding to an unusual influx of preachers and proselytizers, and I think for those folks they are under the impression that if they say the right words, those of us following the "wrong" religion will see the light and convert. That is to say, to them it is not a forceful process. It's "opening their eyes to the truth" or whatnot.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Every so often, someone will voice the opinion that the world would be better off if everybody followed some particular religion. The reasons why someone supposes this vary somewhat, but essentially boil down to the belief that this religion is the best way or even the only true way. Similar opinions are voiced in the name of irreligion when we hear someone state the world would be better off if nobody followed any religions at all. That opinion also holds the assumption that their way is the best way or perhaps the only true way. In both cases, accepting these opinions as true would mean discarding any potential value that religious diversity has for humanity. That's quite the tall order indeed, as it doesn't take much to recognize that many religions - religious diversity - makes for a better world than one religion or none at all.

There are various ways one could argue the case for this, but I'm going to borrow from an author I read regularly who is the inspiration for this thread. The list below is inspired by that work, but also different from it, but to give credit where credit is due, that article is here (A World With Many Religions is Better Than a World With Only One).

  • All religions have something beautiful to offer. Further, the ways in which these religions are beautiful are different. That is, if you remove any one of them, you loose something amazing. This isn't to say all these religions don't also have their ugly sides, but is it really worth loosing that beauty to remove some blemishes? Talk about throwing out the seeds with the soil.
  • One religion (or none at all) is not a sustainable condition. History shows us what happens when humans lack choices, as our nature begs for options. Attempts at monopolies fail - the authoritarian structure become corrupt over time, and people beg for something different when the monopoly inevitably fails to meet someone's particular needs. One way cannot last and will fragment into many. So why try and force a monopoly of religion (or irreligion) in the first place?
  • There's no way to know if something is the "One True Way". Many hearken to the notion of one religion for all (or no religions for anyone) because they want certainty. There is no such certainty to be had. If there is a "best" or "right" way, we'll never agree on what that is or know if we've found it. We can only know what is "best" or "right" for us and our communities right now... and that answer can chance over time. A monopoly doesn't give you options when your needs change.
Thoughts?
As a liberal I can accept that, however I don’t think it hurts to tidy up the blemishes while leaving the beauty intact, although it may be necessary to give up the fundamentalist approach to do that.
 

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
Regarding the OP: I definitely approve. I view the various religions and systems of belief throughout this world as a cultural art form. It is expression on the macro scale and could never be limited to a single 'correct' expression. 'Correct' is not even a proper description for expression at all.

Regarding its effect: No one can ever force any belief on anyone. That being said, everyone's beliefs effect everyone in some way. That is regardless of what those beliefs are, where or who they come from, how true they are, or whether they are religious or irreligious, deep or shallow, right or wrong. There is nothing that anyone can do about that other than to do the same. We, in fact, cannot choose out of this process. What we think, what we say, what we do all have a lasting affect on reality, most apparently in our fellow humans. There is nothing that anyone thinks, says or does that doesn't affect me in some small way. The closer to me you are (both literally and figuratively), the more of an affect you have. That is true regardless of what those things are and regardless of whether I even know what those things are! Those three things (think, say, do) are determined by what we believe (and in turn determine what we believe as a result). Thus, what people believe will effect you no matter what you say or do about it. There is no escape regardless of how right or wrong it is. Resist the 'wrong', encourage the 'right'. What more can we do?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Every so often, someone will voice the opinion that the world would be better off if everybody followed some particular religion. The reasons why someone supposes this vary somewhat, but essentially boil down to the belief that this religion is the best way or even the only true way. Similar opinions are voiced in the name of irreligion when we hear someone state the world would be better off if nobody followed any religions at all. That opinion also holds the assumption that their way is the best way or perhaps the only true way. In both cases, accepting these opinions as true would mean discarding any potential value that religious diversity has for humanity. That's quite the tall order indeed, as it doesn't take much to recognize that many religions - religious diversity - makes for a better world than one religion or none at all.

There are various ways one could argue the case for this, but I'm going to borrow from an author I read regularly who is the inspiration for this thread. The list below is inspired by that work, but also different from it, but to give credit where credit is due, that article is here (A World With Many Religions is Better Than a World With Only One).

  • All religions have something beautiful to offer. Further, the ways in which these religions are beautiful are different. That is, if you remove any one of them, you loose something amazing. This isn't to say all these religions don't also have their ugly sides, but is it really worth loosing that beauty to remove some blemishes? Talk about throwing out the seeds with the soil.
  • One religion (or none at all) is not a sustainable condition. History shows us what happens when humans lack choices, as our nature begs for options. Attempts at monopolies fail - the authoritarian structure become corrupt over time, and people beg for something different when the monopoly inevitably fails to meet someone's particular needs. One way cannot last and will fragment into many. So why try and force a monopoly of religion (or irreligion) in the first place?
  • There's no way to know if something is the "One True Way". Many hearken to the notion of one religion for all (or no religions for anyone) because they want certainty. There is no such certainty to be had. If there is a "best" or "right" way, we'll never agree on what that is or know if we've found it. We can only know what is "best" or "right" for us and our communities right now... and that answer can chance over time. A monopoly doesn't give you options when your needs change.
Thoughts?

I think the answer to this will unfold when mankind embraces our needed unity. This unity will require us to consider many things.

Peace be with you.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
Similar opinions are voiced in the name of irreligion when we hear someone state the world would be better off if nobody followed any religions at all. That opinion also holds the assumption that their way is the best way or perhaps the only true way.

This is a false premise.

The argument against religion simply needs to point out that religion's one undeniable accomplishment is its division of humanity into thousands of quarreling sects; and, as such, is a major obstacle in humanity's quest for global harmony.

All religions have something beautiful to offer. Further, the ways in which these religions are beautiful are different. That is, if you remove any one of them, you loose something amazing.
A big claim but what are you talking about? Can you give us say three examples of beautiful things that religion, and only religion, have given the world?
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
The problem with none or one, I don't see how that could be accomplished without forcing a set of beliefs on folks they might not want.

That is in fact, the only way it will work. Conversion at the point of a sword is not a novel idea. Neither is starving you into compliance. What would you do? Accept or die?
 

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
This is a false premise.

The argument against religion simply needs to point out that religion's one undeniable accomplishment is its division of humanity into thousands of quarreling sects; and, as such, is a major obstacle in humanity's quest for global harmony.


A big claim but what are you talking about? Can you give us say three examples of beautiful things that religion, and only religion, have given the world?

Funny how the 'ugly' thing in this case (division of humanity) isn't subject to the caveat of 'religion and only religion'. Obviously, plenty of things aside from religion have served to divide us, but the 'beautiful' things about religion must be the sole purview of religion in order to count as 'beautiful'. Don't you think that's expecting too much? After all, every painter does not have to paint beautiful things in order for painting to be beautiful in and of itself, does it?
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
Funny how the 'ugly' thing in this case (division of humanity) isn't subject to the caveat of 'religion and only religion'. Obviously, plenty of things aside from religion have served to divide us, but the 'beautiful' things about religion must be the sole purview of religion in order to count as 'beautiful'. Don't you think that's expecting too much? After all, every painter does not have to paint beautiful things in order for painting to be beautiful in and of itself, does it?
If you think that religions, taken as a whole, have had undeniable positives that offset the major negative that I've pointed out, make your case.

My demand of the OP that his examples should be restricted to religion was made because he made the claim in the OP that religion offered those exclusive advantages.
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
That is in fact, the only way it will work. Conversion at the point of a sword is not a novel idea. Neither is starving you into compliance. What would you do? Accept or die?

I'd give lip service, pledge fealty, what's ever needed to to survive. While cursing them all when they aren't looking. I suspect I wouldn't be alone and they'd soon have a rebellion.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Doesn't the Book of Genesis speak the same words at the tower of Babel?

I see that story as being a metaphor of the result of man trying to become God.

We have built many Towers of Babel throughout the ages.

Unity requires humility.

Peace be with you.
 

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
If you think that religions, taken as a whole, have had undeniable positives that offset the major negative that I've pointed out, make your case.

I'm not going to go tit-for-tat with you about positive and negative. That's just silly. Good things don't erase bad things. Bad things don't erase good things. There is no offset. Nothing positive I list is going to nullify, modify or diminish the divisiveness of religion. Just as nothing negative you site will nullify, modify or diminish the beauty of religion.

You presented a double-standard. I demonstrated that fact. Do you think there is some answer to the above question that validates your double-standard? I assure you, there isn't.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to go tit-for-tat with you about positive and negative. That's just silly. Good things don't erase bad things. Bad things don't erase good things. There is no offset. Nothing positive I list is going to nullify, modify or diminish the divisiveness of religion. Just as nothing negative you site will nullify, modify or diminish the beauty of religion.
Positives can outweigh negatives and vice versa.

You presented a double-standard. I demonstrated that fact. Do you think there is some answer to the above question that validates your double-standard? I assure you, there isn't.
You misunderstand There is no double standard on my part.

The OP makes this claim:

"All religions have something beautiful to offer. Further, the ways in which these religions are beautiful are different. That is, if you remove any one of them, you loose something amazing."

In asking the following:

"A big claim but what are you talking about? Can you give us say three examples of beautiful things that religion, and only religion, have given the world?" I'm only asking that he support his claim with examples of "something amazing that would be lost" if religions didn't exist.

You aren't saying that, in debate, it's unfair of me to ask him to explain and support his claim. Are you?
 
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Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I think the answer to this will unfold when mankind embraces our needed unity. This unity will require us to consider many things.

What need for unity? Pretty sure you mean your need for unity.


This is a false premise.

The argument against religion simply needs to point out that religion's one undeniable accomplishment is its division of humanity into thousands of quarreling sects; and, as such, is a major obstacle in humanity's quest for global harmony.

That's a very cynical perspective on religion that I do not share. You're also replacing one allegedly false premise with another - that humans have a quest for "global harmony." I can tell you right now I definitely do not share in this quest.


My demand of the OP that his examples should be restricted to religion was made because he made the claim in the OP that religion offered those exclusive advantages.

That's not actually what was said. Furthermore, I doubt that you actually believe exclusivity is a requirement for something to be beautiful or have value. Might as well go "oh, this art museum has more than one painting in it.... that means they are all worthless and nothing would be lost by burning them all!"
 

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
My demand of the OP that his examples should be restricted to religion was made because he made the claim in the OP that religion offered those exclusive advantages.

Orly?

OP:
All religions have something beautiful to offer. Further, the ways in which these religions are beautiful are different. That is, if you remove any one of them, you loose something amazing.

You:
A big claim but what are you talking about? Can you give us say three examples of beautiful things that religion, and only religion, have given the world?

So, it seems the OP made no such claim of exclusiveness. In fact, it appears to imply (quite correctly I might add) that the beauty within religion is not even universal across religions, so clearly could not refer to anything exclusive to religion in general either.

Thus, the exclusiveness you speak of was added by you. I could take a stab at explaining why you're trying to float it by, but I'm only an amateur psychologist so I'll save my amateur opinion on that.

At this point, you can either justify your double-standard (successfully this time) or abandon it. I highly suggest the latter.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What need for unity? Pretty sure you mean your need for unity.

Personally I have no need for any other person to accept that the world requires unity. The advice was not mine to give, but only of me to share.

"The peace and security of mankind is unatainable, unless and until, its unity is formly established", was that advice from God in the mid 1800's.

So, sure all peoples and Nations may continue with the way the world is managing its affairs. Disunity rampant and out of control.

No person, or Nation, can now find peace, unless and until our collective mind embraces that, "the earth is but one country and mankind its citizens".

Peace be with you
 
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