love your neighbour

[The Kilted Heathen]

Well they should all say that!!

Why? You are not my brother, nor are you my kinsman. What do I owe you in the slightest?

 

[Lyndon]

That doesn't classify as a religion in my book.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why? You are not my brother, nor are you my kinsman. What do I owe you in the slightest?

Tribalism seems a bit silly in this day and age.

 

[DavidFirth]

To me, that is the major brunt of Jesus' teachings.

What do you mean?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That doesn't classify as a religion in my book.

Well thankfully "your book" doesn't set the standard.

Tribalism seems a bit silly in this day and age.

Not really. It may be contrary to what society pushes today, but basic human nature doesn't dictate that I have to care so much so about strangers that I regard them as family.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not really. It may be contrary to what society pushes today, but basic human nature doesn't dictate that I have to care so much so about strangers that I regard them as family.

About human nature, that is true. Which is a reason why I believe in transcending base human nature.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The religion of erotic dancing girls most certainly does! Just for the record, mind you.

Do we worship at Breast-burrow Baptist Church?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Why deny what we are? Especially for something that serves no better purpose, sets up a false sense of belonging, and imposes expectancies of loyalty without prerequisite familiarity or action? It's nonsensical.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

people who live up to the ideal are religious even if they claim not to be. religious doesn't mean I bow to god and that's it. religious is following the correct path to humanity.

Doesn't that make them humanists? Humanism is the correct path.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why deny what we are? Especially for something that serves no better purpose, sets up a false sense of belonging, and imposes expectancies of loyalty without prerequisite familiarity or action? It's nonsensical.

It's not about being in denial, it's about the sanctification of human nature through God's grace. Call me an idealist but I'm not satisfied with the present state of humanity. I often feel like a misanthrope due to disappointment. I want humanity to be better and to rise above its primitivity. Religion is a tool to do that. You could say Christianity is the original transhumanism.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The most general definition of "religion" I am finding is "a system of faith and worship"

That's pretty good, but it doesn't rule out faith in and worship of Kim Jong Un. I wouldn't call that a religion. Would you? That's a cult of personality to me.

How about if we add a god to the mix, or at least supernaturalism?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It is time to find our unity.

"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens".

"Let not man pride himself that he loves his country, let man pride hinself in that he loves his kind".

This advice was given by Baha'u'llah in the late 1800's. The Baha'is now embrace all the peoples of the world as brothers and sisters of one family.

Regards Tony

• "The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

It's not about being in denial, it's about the sanctification of human nature through God's grace.

In that case, it would be very much better for the OP to limit their statement to "the Christian religion says..." rather than "all religions say..." don't you think? Because not every religion believes that human kind needs saving through the grace of any god.

That's pretty good, but it doesn't rule out faith in and worship of Kim Jong Un. I wouldn't call that a religion. Would you? That's a cult of personality to me.

How about if we add a god to the mix, or at least supernaturalism?

When I'm in doubt, I always turn to the Oxford English Dictionary:

re•li•gion n

1. the belief in the existence of a god or gods, and the activities that are connected with the worship of them
Is there always a conflict between science and religion?
2. one of the systems of faith that are based on the belief in the existence of a particular god or gods
the Jewish religion
Christianity, Islam and other world religions
The law states that everyone has the right to practice their own religion.
3. a particular interest or influence that is very important in your life
For him, football is an absolute religion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In that case, it would be very much better for the OP to limit their statement to "the Christian religion says..." rather than "all religions say..." don't you think? Because not every religion believes that human kind needs saving through the grace of any god.

I wasn't speaking for the OP. Other religions teach love and compassion for others beyond our "comfort zone" such as Buddhism, Jainism, Judaism, Islam (which is supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus), etc. So it's not just Christianity.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I wasn't speaking for the OP. Other religions teach love and compassion for others beyond our "comfort zone" such as Buddhism, Jainism, Judaism, Islam (which is supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus), etc. So it's not just Christianity.

I thought you said that denying basic human "tribalism" (as the OP suggests) is about the sanctification of humankind through divine grace? In which case the religions that exhibit this belief are few. My original objection still stands in that not all religions teach this "brotherhood of man" - in fact, quite a few do not - and I still don't see a need for it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I thought you said that denying basic human "tribalism" (as the OP suggests) is about the sanctification of humankind through divine grace? In which case the religions that exhibit this belief are few. My original objection still stands in that not all religions teach this "brotherhood of man" - in fact, quite a few do not - and I still don't see a need for it.

I was answering your question about why I believe something that I stated. I didn't say that all religions believe in it in the same way or for the same reasons Christians do. Just that most of the major world religions teach universalism in regards to how treat people.

So you don't believe in the brotherhood of man? So we're not all equal in dignity and worth in your view? That concept is pretty much the backbone of the concept of human rights, liberty and democracy.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

all religions say we must live as brothers and sisters.

Correction; all religions which adhere to the Holy Bible say that.

we shun religion, that is why we suffer.

We suffer more from a lack of wisdom, religious or otherwise. Embracing religion doesn't decrease suffering.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

So you don't believe in the brotherhood of man? So we're not all equal in dignity and worth in your view? That concept is pretty much the backbone of the concept of human rights, liberty and democracy.

That's not quite what I've said. You are human, just as I am, and at the end of the game the pawn and the king return to the same box. Yet this does not require or expect me to call a stranger brother, love them as though they are kin, or regard them as anything more than a stranger.

That said, however, yes I do believe in the inherent inequality of dignity and worth, as does every other human on this world - even you. Human Rights require and insist upon nothing more than the basic rights of humans to be treated fairly, rather than cruelly, typically by governments. Liberty is the freedom to live as one chooses, without excessive restriction by government or authority. (So even America doesn't believe in Liberty anymore) Lastly, democracy simply means that the people of a country can elect their representatives, and receive equal treatment within an organization. None of these ideologies insist upon or necessitate thinking that every person on earth is 100% equal to one another in dignity and worth.

 

[Lyndon]

In that case, it would be very much better for the OP to limit their statement to "the Christian religion says..." rather than "all religions say..." don't you think? Because not every religion believes that human kind needs saving through the grace of any god.


When I'm in doubt, I always turn to the Oxford English Dictionary:

re•li•gion n

1. the belief in the existence of a god or gods, and the activities that are connected with the worship of them
Is there always a conflict between science and religion?
2. one of the systems of faith that are based on the belief in the existence of a particular god or gods
the Jewish religion
Christianity, Islam and other world religions
The law states that everyone has the right to practice their own religion.
3. a particular interest or influence that is very important in your life
For him, football is an absolute religion.

Your Oxford dictionary definition does not include many forms of Buddhism, a religion with over a billion followers.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That said, however, yes I do believe in the inherent inequality of dignity and worth, as does every other human on this world - even you.

Absolutely not. All humans are created in the Image of God, with equal inherent worth and dignity. I'm hardly the only one. That is taught in Christianity in general and has been the inspiration for many civil rights and liberation movements.

Human Rights require and insist upon nothing more than the basic rights of humans to be treated fairly

Where do you get the notion that humans even have such an inalienable right? You don't even believe that all humans have equal dignity and worth. You have to have a foundation from which to argue that humans have rights in the first place and logically, it must be upon some shared attribute that all humans share. Otherwise you have no logical reason to believe in the notion of human rights, at least not for everyone. Then the whole thing will just crash down upon itself when taken to its ultimate conclusion. It opens up the gates to cruelty and barbarism since you can arbitrarily declare that this and that group or individual are lesser than others, and strip them of rights. To have liberty and democracy, you have to realize that others share the same yearnings as you do. That is a step to recognizing the inherent dignity of all. It's empathy taken to its logical conclusion.