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Featured Looking For A Smart Atheist

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Earthling, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    OK, so the people that wrote the OT thought the soul could die. They identified the soul with the living body.

    Again, so what?

    We know we can die. If that's all they are saying, it is a triviality.
     
  2. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    So you're an atheist. Or, at least an unbeliever. What is a soul? To a Christian the answer is likely to be from Socrates rather than the Bible. The soul is immortal. It can't die. It may be tortured forever in hell. Which is also a pagan concept. Not scriptural.

    To an unbeliever who likely doesn't believe in the supernatural the discovery that, according to the Bible the soul is the life of any breathing creature, and is in the blood, is in effect life, blood . . . is trivial?
     
  3. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Well, again, the notion of the soul has changed over time as people got more sophisticated concerning their notions of an afterlife. It isn't clear that the older texts of the Bible even have a well-defined afterlife. The later texts definitely do.

    Life is in the blood? Not really. Life is breath? Not really. Life and blood are very different things. For example, we can donate blood but not life. You might be able to stretch and say that the 'soul' is oxygen, but that has a host of other difficulties. For example, is the oxygen in the air alive? No.

    So, to me, it sounds like some fairly primitive ideas that have little relation to reality.
     
  4. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    That's interesting. You've basically been pretty much handed all of the answers and yet still came to all of the wrong conclusions. I don't think you would be the right person for the project.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    it seems to me like you have conclusions that you want to be drawn as opposed to someone thinking about the evidence and drawing their own conclusions.

    So, what conclusions do you want to be drawn? Which conclusions do you think I should have drawn?
     
  6. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    I wanted to see if you could draw the right conclusions, like a student being shown how to add 2+2 for the first time. Even when you were given the simple answer "the soul isn't immortal" you kept on going and the more you went the further from the truth you got. And the answer was really plain and simple.

    You were reaching for other conclusions, apparently from what a skeptic might think of the religious development of the soul. That's why you got the wrong answer. If you would have just listened you would have easily got it right.

    Oh, and if you didn't get it right I was hoping at least for an examination of the scriptures that lead you to a well thought out, but incorrect answer.
     
  7. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    OK, some people believed the soul could be killed. So?

    I'm still not seeing your point. Some people, before they interacted with Greek philosophy, had a different notion concerning souls than those developed by Greek philosophy. Many people today agree with the Greek view.

    OK, so?

    I looked at what you suggested. Some verses mentioned souls. Some mentioned dying, but not souls. Some mentioned souls that could live forever. Others mentions that souls could die.

    Again, it seems rather pointless to me.

    So you have some verses that suggest that God can kill souls. So?
     
  8. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    You and I can destroy souls.Why do you keep inserting God where it isn't necessary? What are you reaching for? I've told you the answer. We're not looking for a prize, just an answer to a question?

    Can souls end. Be destroyed or die. The answer is yes, according to the Bible. That's all you need. You don't need to address anything else at this time. Not God, not Greek philosophy, just what the Bible says. That's all.

    Sorry. You're not the right person. That's no big deal. No insult. No gotcha.
     
  9. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    @Earthling I am willing to volunteer my services for you.
     
  10. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Why? I would prefer to deal with amused people than with angry people.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  11. charlie sc

    charlie sc Active Member

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    I’ll try your test :p I’ve not really read the Bible but I know a few stories through animations and other various media.so, I’m not sure if you want someone who is ignorant on this topic.
     
    #151 charlie sc, Mar 7, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  12. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    So, if I get a full replacement of my blood with another one’s, my soul will go down the drain to be replaced by that other one’s?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  13. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    It has been my experience that the amused ones are, just under the surface, just as angry, and on top of that they don't take it serious. The result being they mock and scorn, which can be fun for a while, for me as well, because I will return in kind, but there's a considerable degree of anger 'neath my surface as well and it just gets ugly real quick.

    You and I may have gone down that road a ways.
     
  14. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Well, why do you think the Jews drain all of the blood from their meat and Jehovah's Witnesses don't get blood transfusions?
     
  15. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Okay. Here's a simple problem you can solve. Well, the answer may not be that simple. I had to figure this out some time ago when the question was put to me. The beauty of it is that there is no dogma attached to it like there is with the soul, and there is very little in the Bible to help you with an answer. This one you pretty much have to think for yourself.

    Here it is: God gave us every plant for food. What about Canabis sativa? Is it okay to eat (or smoke) that plant? How about the opium poppy (Papaver somniferum), coca plant (Erythroxylum coca), or the peyote cactus (Lophophora williamsii)? Did God give us these plants to eat too? It would seem that he did, since there are no exceptions given in Genesis 1:29.
     
  16. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    In the quotes you gave, the only times when souls were killed was when directed by God. I'm not reaching for anything. In fact, I consider this a rather trivial point. You asked me to read certain verses. I read them and gave my interpretation. I guess that disagrees with yours.

    OK, so according to some verses of the Bible souls can be destroyed. According to other verses, some souls can live forever. So?
     
  17. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    How about all the poisonous plants?
     
  18. charlie sc

    charlie sc Active Member

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    Assuming this statement is true, “God have us every plant for food,” then I see no problem with eating any of the plants you mentioned.

    Ok, now what?
     
  19. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to butt in, but just thought I'd give my response if it's at all helpful.

    If we are taking the Bible at its literal word, then we must also conclude that God gave things for humans to eat that are actually also harmful, poisonous or outright deadly for us to eat. In which case, an additional question arises as to whether or not God gave explicit permission to eat such things with the express intention that we would/should be harmed or poisoned, or whether, in providing things that we have permission to eat, God anticipated the human ability to differentiate between what we could eat and what we should eat. In the former case, I would argue that consumption of any such plant above would, at the very least, be justified; in the latter case, I couldn't possibly say.
     
  20. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    It doesn't have to agree with mine. I really don't think that the quotes I gave you indicated that God necessarily had anything to do with it.

    All you have to determine is whether or not souls end. That's it.
     
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