Life

[danny vee]

Your view on what happens after death has a major impact on your worldview. Many people who say there is no resurrection go through life trying to enjoy every minute as much as possible, to live life to the full. Why?! Why try to forcefully enjoy every moment even though many moments are very unenjoyable? Why? Also, why build up material wealth, when you're going to lose it in death? Why not instead love each other and help others? Do you not agree that this would make you and others feel more satisfied and happy than sitting on a couch and enjoying yourself all day? Work makes you feel satisfied. Self-enjoyment makes you feel hollow and empty.

Also, this thread will be about whether or not you believe in an afterlife or any kind of phenomena associated with it for example Out of Body Experiences and Near Death Experiences and why. I believe because I have read and heard people's personal experiences and they are really amazing, and unexplainable. "The Holographic Universe" offers some great examples.

 

[sandandfoam]

Many people who say there is no resurrection go through life trying to enjoy every minute as much as possible, to live life to the full. Why?!

I believe in an afterlife and I try to enjoy every minute as much as possible.
To not try and live as much as one can seems like an odd idea to me.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I do not believe in any type of afterlife. I believe people experience the phenomena known as OBE's and NDE's, but I believe they are fully explainable as neural processes and do not have any supernatural components.

I spend time trying to build wealth for the safety and freedom it provides. This allows me to enjoy life more, as well as focus more on loving and helping others. Additionally, sometimes I enjoy hard-work - sometimes I enjoying sitting around on the couch all day. Life is long enough to be able to fit in all the things you mention - I don't really see it as an either/or situation.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Greetings

Your view on what happens after death has a major impact on your worldview.

Agreed.

Many people who say there is no resurrection go through life trying to enjoy every minute as much as possible, to live life to the full. Why?!

Because people that believe there is nothing after death therefore believe that life is everything. If life is everything and you waste it then you lost the game.

Why try to forcefully enjoy every moment even though many moments are very unenjoyable?

Obviously others disagree but my view is because even things that are unenjoyable are still experiences. If you never had anything negative in your life you wouldn't realise when something was enjoyable. Most parts of our life (I would argue all) are very neutral, and so you have the choice of either enjoying them or being miserable. I know which i'd rather do.

Also, why build up material wealth, when you're going to lose it in death?

I agree. But for me, material wealth is only a tool. If you liked the taste of chocolate (and lets face it, who doesn't) then having money means you could buy chocolate and experience the taste which you enjoy. Material wealth is only good, for me, for getting enjoyment out of life. I agree that we shouldn't simply build up our wealth because nothing can be experienced, but if you looked at it from another angle, why couldn't you save up money and give it to the poor?

Why not instead love each other and help others? Do you not agree that this would make you and others feel more satisfied and happy than sitting on a couch and enjoying yourself all day?

I guess you have a different view to what enjoyment is. You don't think you get anything out of helping others? I know when I help someone I feel pretty good about it usually. So if you bring enjoyment to others you gain enjoyment. I think that love is a pretty enjoyable thing too.

Work makes you feel satisfied. Self-enjoyment makes you feel hollow and empty.

For you it may. But you just said you get enjoyment from the satisfaction of work? Then you've essentially just negated your own claim...

Also, this thread will be about whether or not you believe in an afterlife or any kind of phenomena associated with it for example Out of Body Experiences and Near Death Experiences and why.

Afterlife: Not in the way you're talking about
Out of Body Experience: Yes, but probably not in the way you're thinking about.
Near Death Experiences: Yes. No real reason why I do but I guess when people have died and been brought back by scientific means they have had a near-death experience. But in a divine sense, or most likely in the way you're thinking, no.

GhK.

 

[Phasmid]

There was a good talk on this subject on the Buddhist Society of Western Australia channel on youtube.

The message was basically that we're reincarnated and, as such, we have as many oportunities to do what we like as we please. It stops the fear of death and allows one to concentrate on the process of living, rather than suffering thoughts like, "I need to do this or that before it's too late!" or, "I don't want to live my life in this situation!". Instead, one thinks, "Ah well, that opportunity passed me by this life, I'll try again next time" or, "Well, I can do this next time, I'll sacrifice this so someone else may better enjoy themselves".

And while I see benefits in this, I still do not believe in reincarnation.

 

[sandandfoam]

I still do not believe in reincarnation.

I think there's something very appealing about the idea when taken in a moment to moment way rather than a life to life way.

 

[Phasmid]

I think there's something very appealing about the idea when taken in a moment to moment way rather than a life to life way.

I'm not sure I follow?

 

[sandandfoam]

I'm not sure I follow?

I find the idea that we die from one moment to the next and so are reincarnated from one moment to the next a very appealing one. I have not one cell in my body that was there when I was born.

 

[zenzero]

Friend danny vee,

Your view on what happens after death has a major impact on your worldview. Many people who say there is no resurrection go through life trying to enjoy every minute as much as possible, to live life to the full. Why?! Why try to forcefully enjoy every moment even though many moments are very unenjoyable? Why? Also, why build up material wealth, when you're going to lose it in death? Why not instead love each other and help others? Do you not agree that this would make you and others feel more satisfied and happy than sitting on a couch and enjoying yourself all day? Work makes you feel satisfied. Self-enjoyment makes you feel hollow and empty.

Also, this thread will be about whether or not you believe in an afterlife or any kind of phenomena associated with it for example Out of Body Experiences and Near Death Experiences and why. I believe because I have read and heard people's personal experiences and they are really amazing, and unexplainable. "The Holographic Universe" offers some great examples.

Why people do what they do?
To start with we must agree that everything that we see or do not see are all energies.
Energy is one but forms keep changing.
Similarly humans too are energy and that changes after the body or present form is no more.
Energy is neither created nor destroyed. Our parents never created us but only gave birth to the form we live in. There is no one as zenzero it is only a label attached to a bundle of energy which is holding for a period of time and after which it will change to another form.
Jesus never spoke of reincarnation because simply put it would be difficult for people without any background culturally to understand about it in a short time. In the east, the history of religion is as old as civilization and mediators after mediators have realised it and their experiences have been recorded and the understanding developed to understand that humans have evolved and today the stage has reached where we are called Humans but again evolution carries on and after humans there will be another more evolved beings which may be called gods or beings with godly powers; who knows what evolution will throw up next.
rgds OBE etc, have no experiences and cannot state about others experiences as there are books on those subjects which have been written by those who had such expeiences. Yes can state that anything is possible.

Love & rgds

 

[Phasmid]

Jesus never spoke of reincarnation because simply put it would be difficult for people without any background culturally to understand about it in a short time.

Interestingly there are Jews, Christians and Muslims who believe in reincarnation. From what I heard it was the mainstream view until a group of high ranking religious folk branded the belief as heresy.

 

[Phasmid]

I find the idea that we die from one moment to the next and so are reincarnated from one moment to the next a very appealing one. I have not one cell in my body that was there when I was born.

I see.

 

[whereismynotecard]

Work does not make me feel satisfied. And your advice to try to enjoy life less doesn't really make much sense.

 

[danny vee]

Let's say you write a massive, 15 page essay on a very tedious topic. Are you not satisfied when it is done. Are you not satisfied after going for a jog, after doing work? If not then I guess you're just different from me in that sense. I for example, feel very satisfied after finishing some hard work and knowing that I've achieved something. And my advice was not to enjoy life less. It was to enjoy it more. You just saw enjoyment as the things I said to do less of. I personally think that it is important to feel self satisfied, and this cannot be achieved through laziness. Love and work, and we will be happy.

 

[danny vee]

Greetings


For you it may. But you just said you get enjoyment from the satisfaction of work? Then you've essentially just negated your own claim...




GhK.

I haven't negated my own claim. I view self satisfaction, and self pleasure/enjoyment as two entirely different things. My view is that self-satisfaction comes when you have achieved something important to you, like at the end of a 5km run, or after finishing a big job. Pleasure on the other hand is, something where you don't achieve anything and you make yourself feel sick with pleasure just for the sake of pleasure, when you could be doing something much more useful. I view something like masturbation as a form of this pleasure.

 

[danny vee]

Friend danny vee,



Why people do what they do?
To start with we must agree that everything that we see or do not see are all energies.
Energy is one but forms keep changing.
Similarly humans too are energy and that changes after the body or present form is no more.
Energy is neither created nor destroyed. Our parents never created us but only gave birth to the form we live in. There is no one as zenzero it is only a label attached to a bundle of energy which is holding for a period of time and after which it will change to another form.
Jesus never spoke of reincarnation because simply put it would be difficult for people without any background culturally to understand about it in a short time. In the east, the history of religion is as old as civilization and mediators after mediators have realised it and their experiences have been recorded and the understanding developed to understand that humans have evolved and today the stage has reached where we are called Humans but again evolution carries on and after humans there will be another more evolved beings which may be called gods or beings with godly powers; who knows what evolution will throw up next.
rgds OBE etc, have no experiences and cannot state about others experiences as there are books on those subjects which have been written by those who had such expeiences. Yes can state that anything is possible.

Love & rgds

zenzero,

Thank you for the frubals! I'm just curious but you are from India, and I hate to stereotype you, but are you Hindu? If so, you believe there is a way to escape reincarnation right?

 

[Falvlun]

Why try to forcefully enjoy every moment even though many moments are very unenjoyable?

Well, you make a couple of strange assumptions about those who don't believe in an afterlife. Just because someone might believe that this life is it, it doesn't mean that he is forcing life down his throat till he gags. It's not about forcing yourself to enjoy life; it's more about not being wasteful with the life we've got.

For example, some might see going to church as a waste of a beautiful Sunday morning, and prefer to go for a stroll in the forest instead. But if you find yourself in church on a Sunday, you are allowed to tell yourself what a bummer this is. It's not like you need to force yourself to like it; though of course, it wouldn't hurt to try.

Also, why build up material wealth, when you're going to lose it in death?

As others have stated, having a little wealth accumulated will tend to make your time go more smoothly. Another thing, you may want to enrich your children's or friend's lives after you die, so you are being philanthropic. Also, making money is a good way to ensure that you have some to give to your charity.

Why not instead love each other and help others? Do you not agree that this would make you and others feel more satisfied and happy than sitting on a couch and enjoying yourself all day? Work makes you feel satisfied. Self-enjoyment makes you feel hollow and empty.

What?? So people who don't believe in an afterlife don't believe in loving and helping people out? You seem to be under the impression the non-afterlifers only enjoy sitting on the couch all day. What gave you that impression? I'll be the first to admit that I love a lazy Saturday curled up with a book; but after a while I need to get up and go out for a walk; and I don't think the weekend fun would be as enjoyable without some sort of industry in the week preceding it.

Also, this thread will be about whether or not you believe in an afterlife or any kind of phenomena associated with it for example Out of Body Experiences and Near Death Experiences and why. I believe because I have read and heard people's personal experiences and they are really amazing, and unexplainable. "The Holographic Universe" offers some great examples.

I am very skeptical of out-of-body experiences, and believe that science will come up with an explanation in due time (if one is not already available).

 

[GiantHouseKey]

I haven't negated my own claim. I view self satisfaction, and self pleasure/enjoyment as two entirely different things. My view is that self-satisfaction comes when you have achieved something important to you, like at the end of a 5km run, or after finishing a big job. Pleasure on the other hand is, something where you don't achieve anything and you make yourself feel sick with pleasure just for the sake of pleasure, when you could be doing something much more useful. I view something like masturbation as a form of this pleasure.

You weren't talking about pleasure though, you were talking about enjoyment. Nevertheless I believe that pleasure is just a result of satisfaction.

Also sounds like you're saying that anyone who tries to make the most their life as enjoyable as possible are just sat at home masturbating their lives away? Whilst I see nothing wrong with any autosexual act, I can certainly tell you that my life involves a lot more than that.

It also depends what your criteria for acheivement are. What acheivement have you accomplished by having a 5km run? Whilst I understand that it feels good to exercise and 5km is a fair distance, could you not say that it was a purely 'pleasurable' act? What is useful about running?

Is this really just an argument against slobbery? Because sitting at home on the coach, masturbating myself into a stuper sounds like an incredibly strong example of somebody NOT making the most of their lives.

Do you go to church, sir?

GhK.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I believe in reincarnation, and I try to enjoy every last minute I can. I do not dwell on emotions I do not find to be worth my time, such as anger or jealousy. I try to build up at least a small amount of wealth, because without it, you can't have much. Why? Because even in the low times, just as the high, there are pleasures in life to be reaped.

 

[zenzero]

Friend danny vee,

I'm just curious but you are from India, and I hate to stereotype you, but are you Hindu? If so, you believe there is a way to escape reincarnation right?

Though born to parents following Sanatan Dharma [hinduism] but personally follow my own religion.
Scientifically have stated that humans too are energy and that energy is neither created nor destroyed and only changes form and humans have evolved through rebirths from one form to another. If you have anything against that, then do state besides if there is any case for stereotyping the present form that I am IN, kindly MIRROR the same for a refection; would appreciate.

Love & rgds

 

[bobhikes]

Your view on what happens after death has a major impact on your worldview. Many people who say there is no resurrection go through life trying to enjoy every minute as much as possible, to live life to the full. Why?! Why try to forcefully enjoy every moment even though many moments are very unenjoyable? Why? Also, why build up material wealth, when you're going to lose it in death? Why not instead love each other and help others? Do you not agree that this would make you and others feel more satisfied and happy than sitting on a couch and enjoying yourself all day? Work makes you feel satisfied. Self-enjoyment makes you feel hollow and empty.

I'm not sure I understand completly where you are going. I am not sure how to correctly answer.

I don't believe your views on death have any bearing on why we live life the way we do. Life itself is the challenge that dictates how we live.

We need to do an amount of work to stay alive at minumum get food, water, and build or find a shelter. This requires work and competition from others looking for the same thing. So rather than battle over this all the time we built a material world where money is the battle ground. This has produced many major advancements in Human kind are we better off than the caveman probably not, Its just different dangers we face.