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Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You don't answer the question.....evasion noted.

And, the Bible sets the standards, not me. -- 1 John 3:10-15

Disingenuous, much?

What is "the will of God"? (Did you forget?) Is it for Christians to join the world and kill others?
The will of God is that all be saved to God and to knowledge come. It says nowhere that God's will is that you don't fight physical evil. If the World had not fought against the domination against freedom, you would be either dead now or at least not free to talk as you do, meet as you do, and believe as you do.

Was the will of God that the World bring down the SS? I think so. You don't?

I am sure that you and many others are being taught that to take your freedom for granted is God's will for us.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Is war perfect and something that the world NEEDS? Of course not! If the children are taught right, there will be no war in the future. The children are not being taught right.

God's will is that we FIND the place where there is no NEED for war.

It is my opinion that YOU have stopped looking for it.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Until he was born as a human child, the man Jesus did not exist. He wasn't called "Jesus" in heaven before his incarnation. And since Jesus is the created son of God (Col 1:15; Rev 3:14) who might well be the archangel Michael, according to Paul, (1 Thess 4:15, 16)....we don't see what your problem is. The trinity is your belief, not ours.

Colossians 1:15 (ESV Strong's) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Revelation 3:14 (ESV Strong's) 14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

The human "Jesus" was created by God, born of Mary, so Col 1:15 can't be about Him because He was not the first one ever born, it has to be about Michael. According to WT Michael was the only creation by God and Michael created all "other" things. So according to WT, Col 1:15 is about Michael, not Jesus.

According to WT, Michael was "the beginning of God's creation" not Jesus.

Colossians 1:15, 16 (NWT) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.


*** rs p. 218 Jesus Christ ***
Is Jesus Christ the same person as Michael the archangel?


The name of this Michael appears only five times in the Bible. The glorious spirit person who bears the name is referred to as “one of the chief princes,” “the great prince who has charge of your [Daniel’s] people,” and as “the archangel.” (Dan. 10:13; 12:1; Jude 9, RS) Michael means “Who Is Like God?” The name evidently designates Michael as the one who takes the lead in upholding Jehovah’s sovereignty and destroying God’s enemies.

At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus’ commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority? Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ. (Interestingly, the expression “archangel” is never found in the plural in the Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one.)

Revelation 12:7-12 says that Michael and his angels would war against Satan and hurl him and his wicked angels out of heaven in connection with the conferring of kingly authority on Christ. Jesus is later depicted as leading the armies of heaven in war against the nations of the world. (Rev. 19:11-16) Is it not reasonable that Jesus would also be the one to take action against the one he described as “ruler of this world,” Satan the Devil? (John 12:31) Daniel 12:1 (RS) associates the ‘standing up of Michael’ to act with authority with “a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time.” That would certainly fit the experience of the nations when Christ as heavenly executioner takes action against them. So the evidence indicates that the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to earth and is known also by that name since his return to heaven where he resides as the glorified spirit Son of God.

So "Jesus" isn't sitting at the Fathers right hand, Michael is. Jesus ceased to exist after He ascended to heaven, according to WT teaching.

John 17:4-5 (ESV Strong's) 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

That is Michael speaking, not Jesus. Jesus didn't exist before the world existed, correct?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think I would like to hear from the Jehovah's Witnesses about what they think is good about every person who would seek Jehovah getting out of the police force and the army. Everyone who would seek peace and pursuit it GET OUT of the army. OK. If everyone who wants to get on God's righteous way, gets out of anything to do with this world's structure. what would be left to rule YOU? God?

I think for now, I vote for good people to be in the army. Please.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
I think I would like to hear from the Jehovah's Witnesses about what they think is good about every person who would seek Jehovah getting out of the police force and the army. Everyone who would seek peace and pursuit it GET OUT of the army. OK. If everyone who wants to get on God's righteous way, gets out of anything to do with this world's structure. what would be left to rule YOU? God?

I think for now, I vote for good people to be in the army. Please.

This is an excellent topic for it's own thread.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I think you need to really think about this Deeje, coz you say it appears that a Police Officer couldn't do as s/he was told?
If s/he was such a nightmare at following orders as you propose, I doubt they would have let them on the Police Force!
I think that is part of the point. No question about following orders, just whose orders...Jesus said to "love your enemy", but it's hard to do that, if you put yourself in a position to kill someone.

Although, to be honest, I've known a few brothers who were officers. They became Witnesses after the fact.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Huh? This is vague. Are you being possessed by the words in the Bible,
No
or do you actually think that you are being possessed by your deity?
Have you read the Bible?

Jeremiah 31:33 This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
2 Corinthians 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
1 Thessalonians 4:9 Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.
Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
1 Kings 8:58 May he turn our hearts to him, to walk in obedience to him and keep the commands, decrees and laws he gave our ancestors.
Psalms 37:31 The law of their God is in their hearts; their feet do not slip.
Psalms 40:8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart."
Jeremiah 24:7 I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the LORD. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.

I understand "law" is the true wisdom which comes from God. If God's true wisdom is in me, God is in me. I don't hear voices from the outside. I hear wisdom whispering on the inside.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
NoHave you read the Bible?

Jeremiah 31:33 This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
2 Corinthians 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
1 Thessalonians 4:9 Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.
Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
1 Kings 8:58 May he turn our hearts to him, to walk in obedience to him and keep the commands, decrees and laws he gave our ancestors.
Psalms 37:31 The law of their God is in their hearts; their feet do not slip.
Psalms 40:8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart."
Jeremiah 24:7 I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the LORD. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.

I understand "law" is the true wisdom which comes from God. If God's true wisdom is in me, God is in me. I don't hear voices from the outside. I hear wisdom whispering on the inside.

So, to you, ''wisdom'', is like an entity, that can possess you....?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
What do you mean, "possess"? Wisdom is from God. Can your god not speak?

You are saying that ''wisdom'' is what you are getting, not that your deity is /in you, possessing you.
No idea why that would mean that my Deity cannot speak?
I'm not even sure what you mean by 'G-d'

Is the 'wisdom', an entity?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are saying that ''wisdom'' is what you are getting, not that your deity is /in you,
My diety's voice is in me.
possessing you.
I wonder why you think in you and possessing you are the same thing? Have you ever had sex? Oh wait! Are you a guy? Down troll!

No idea why that would mean that my Deity cannot speak?
Probably because it seems that you can't understand that I can hear from Jesus.
I'm not even sure what you mean by 'G-d'
Neither do I.

Is the 'wisdom', an entity?
Maybe. I do not know.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
My diety's voice is in me. I wonder why you think in you and possessing you are the same thing?

Could be the same thing. I'm clarifying that.

Probably because it seems that you can't understand that I can hear from Jesus.
I understand that, however, it usually is on the basis of a ''Christian'' context. I'm not Christian. I have never been a Christian. The Scripture /the NT Scripture,, is not what I use for 'religious texts'. /I just argue /certain subjects,,in the material;
So, when you use words like 'wisdom' etc., usually it means things in a Christian context, /not my thing,, so.. that is why I am asking you what you mean by the wisdom in you, so forth.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
NoHave you read the Bible?

Jeremiah 31:33 This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
2 Corinthians 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
1 Thessalonians 4:9 Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.
Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
1 Kings 8:58 May he turn our hearts to him, to walk in obedience to him and keep the commands, decrees and laws he gave our ancestors.
Psalms 37:31 The law of their God is in their hearts; their feet do not slip.
Psalms 40:8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart."
Jeremiah 24:7 I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the LORD. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.

I understand "law" is the true wisdom which comes from God. If God's true wisdom is in me, God is in me. I don't hear voices from the outside. I hear wisdom whispering on the inside.


Awesome post!

My g-friends daughter does hear voices on the outside.
She sometimes sees things written in the grass or snow.
Schizophrenic don'cha'know.
All her selves are better when on meds. :<(
Adding to the poor woman's misery is that she has the I.Q. of a road kill.
Still she is very kind and has a good heart.
Still she is able to drive a car but NOT with me in it!:eek::eek:
But I digress.:confused:

Given all that^^^^^^^^^^ she profoundly believes in God and prayer.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Could be the same thing. I'm clarifying that.


I understand that, however, it usually is on the basis of a ''Christian'' context. I'm not Christian. I have never been a Christian. The Scripture /the NT Scripture,, is not what I use for 'religious texts'. /I just argue /certain subjects,,in the material;
So, when you use words like 'wisdom' etc., usually it means things in a Christian context, /not my thing,, so.. that is why I am asking you what you mean by the wisdom in you, so forth.
I do appreciate your not quoting my troll. Thank you. I keep him just because he is funny.

I do not write Christian context imo.

Don't ask me about my troll. It's not because Christians might object to me keeping one, because they already object to me changing their Bible so they already refuse me. Do I care? I am not aware of the reason that they do not understand that I wish to turn it back to what was actually written by The Holy Spirit. They think it is possible that God protected it, but they think it is impossible to know which scriptures might be wrong and how to change them back. See how their God is both strong AND weak?
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Colossians 1:15 (ESV Strong's) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Revelation 3:14 (ESV Strong's) 14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

The human "Jesus" was created by God, born of Mary, so Col 1:15 can't be about Him because He was not the first one ever born, it has to be about Michael. According to WT Michael was the only creation by God and Michael created all "other" things. So according to WT, Col 1:15 is about Michael, not Jesus.

According to WT, Michael was "the beginning of God's creation" not Jesus.

Colossians 1:15, 16 (NWT) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.


*** rs p. 218 Jesus Christ ***
Is Jesus Christ the same person as Michael the archangel?


The name of this Michael appears only five times in the Bible. The glorious spirit person who bears the name is referred to as “one of the chief princes,” “the great prince who has charge of your [Daniel’s] people,” and as “the archangel.” (Dan. 10:13; 12:1; Jude 9, RS) Michael means “Who Is Like God?” The name evidently designates Michael as the one who takes the lead in upholding Jehovah’s sovereignty and destroying God’s enemies.

At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus’ commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority? Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ. (Interestingly, the expression “archangel” is never found in the plural in the Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one.)

Revelation 12:7-12 says that Michael and his angels would war against Satan and hurl him and his wicked angels out of heaven in connection with the conferring of kingly authority on Christ. Jesus is later depicted as leading the armies of heaven in war against the nations of the world. (Rev. 19:11-16) Is it not reasonable that Jesus would also be the one to take action against the one he described as “ruler of this world,” Satan the Devil? (John 12:31) Daniel 12:1 (RS) associates the ‘standing up of Michael’ to act with authority with “a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time.” That would certainly fit the experience of the nations when Christ as heavenly executioner takes action against them. So the evidence indicates that the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to earth and is known also by that name since his return to heaven where he resides as the glorified spirit Son of God.

So "Jesus" isn't sitting at the Fathers right hand, Michael is. Jesus ceased to exist after He ascended to heaven, according to WT teaching.

John 17:4-5 (ESV Strong's) 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

That is Michael speaking, not Jesus. Jesus didn't exist before the world existed, correct?

You know, I think that you act purposely dumb sometimes. A little reasoning on the matter clarifies all questions. I look at what you write and often have to ask if you are joking?
297.gif


The man Jesus did not exist before he was born as a human on earth, but the spirit creature whose life was transferred to the womb of Mary was God's "firstborn" son. Is Jesus called a "firstborn" and is he a "son" in the sense of the word as we understand it? If not then where will I find a different definition of those words as they pertain to Jesus?

There is rank among the angels (Messengers, Cherubs, Seraphs) but there is only one Archangel who ranks above all of them. Michael is THE Archangel. There is only one.
As Paul mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Jesus calls his anointed with an Archangel's voice....why would the most important personage in the universe, (next to God himself,) call his "brothers" from their graves with the voice of a lesser creature? Jesus told his disciples that he would return to take them "home" to be with him.
Michael was his name before his sojourn on earth and when he returned to heaven, he resumed that position because even in heaven, YHWH is still his "God". (Revelation 3:12)

You don't have to accept this but this is what the Bible says. We pray through the name of our savior...Jesus Christ....the human who redeemed us so that we could live forever as God first intended....not in heaven, but right here on the earth as his mortal children. (Isaiah 55:11)
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You know, I think that you act purposely dumb sometimes. A little reasoning on the matter clarifies all questions. I look at what you write and often have to ask if you are joking?
297.gif


The man Jesus did not exist before he was born as a human on earth, but the spirit creature whose life was transferred to the womb of Mary was God's "firstborn" son. Is Jesus called a "firstborn" and is he a "son" in the sense of the word as we understand it? If not then where will I find a different definition of those words as they pertain to Jesus?

There is rank among the angels (Messengers, Cherubs, Seraphs) but there is only one Archangel who ranks above all of them. Michael is THE Archangel. There is only one.
As Paul mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Jesus calls his anointed with an Archangel's voice....why would the most important personage in the universe, (next to God himself,) call his "brothers" from their graves with the voice of a lesser creature? Jesus told his disciples that he would return to take them "home" to be with him.
Michael was his name before his sojourn on earth and when he returned to heaven, he resumed that position because even in heaven, YHWH is still his "God". (Revelation 3:12)

You don't have to accept this but this is what the Bible says. We pray through the name of our savior...Jesus Christ....the human who redeemed us so that we could live forever as God first intended....not in heaven, but right here on the earth as his mortal children. (Isaiah 55:11)
Does angel mean, "Messenger"? Is this a correct definition? a spiritual being believed to act as an attendant, agent, or messenger of God.

Can anyone rightly call their son, an attendant, agent or messenger?

God gave birth first to God's son. What did God see in him? An attendant, agent or messenger?

No, I don't think so. God would have seen an inheritor.
 

JesusBeliever

Active Member
Could be the same thing. I'm clarifying that.


I understand that, however, it usually is on the basis of a ''Christian'' context. I'm not Christian. I have never been a Christian.
Thanks for clearing this up syncretic. Coz I was about to ask you what are you trying to achieve? I recall you telling me:

Bear in mind that I am a 'Jesus = JHVH', believer
So if you're not a Christian what are you?
 
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