Knowing God or thinking we know and understand God

[Spirit of Light]

Sorry, I really don't understand that

According to you are these true gods equal to that of Allah?

If you don't believe that these gods are real, then those people believing in these must obviously be wrong according to you. Its not a trick question or me trying to "expose" you. But wouldn't you agree, from a logical point of view, that when you say that Allah is the right God for you, and according to Islam there is only one god, then based on your beliefs, people that choose to not to believe in Allah, is not believing in anything you would consider real.
Its simply impossible, but you are right, that Allah might not be the God for them, but in that case, based on your beliefs they might as well believe in a picture of some spirit animal, because that would be as real as these gods. Because they won't find Allah through these gods, its in direct conflict with Islam and Christianity for that matter etc.


Again, Hindus do not believe in Heaven or Hell, so how would they get there? If Allah is the only God, then clearly the Hindus got it all wrong and it apparently doesn't seem to concern him, that they do not believe in him. I hope you see the conflict here?


I hope the above illustrate it, it is wrong for everyone that do not share that belief. Again as I started by saying in the first post, and you asked if it was a trick question:

Good point, also how can you all know what God is thinking or what he meant, if you believe in different ones?

Because its no different from any other religious person, if they do not believe in Allah, then obviously they think you are believing in a wrong God. Which is why I ask how everyone can know what God is thinking when they believe in different ones, because it conflict with each other.


I understand that, but we do agree that there are some things set in stone in some of these religions. Like in Islam there is one God, Jesus were a prophet etc. Muslims doesn't disagree on these things. Same with Christianity, there might be discussions about whether the holy trinity is true or not, but there is only one God.

But I think its interesting when you write this:
Allah is the right one for me, that does not mean it is so for others.

For you does it matter if you believe in the right God or not? Because you seem to express, that everyone can find there own way to God or Allah, through whatever god or religions they like, as long as it works for them?

I believe in Allah, but who am I to tell others what to believe?

When I say islam say one should only follow Allah, that means a Muslim should only believe in the teaching of Allah, and not Mix other teachings from other religions in. It does not say nonmuslims are wrong.

Some Muslims say nonmuslims are wrong and other Gods does not exist.
I personally do not claim to know if there is or isnt other Gods.

 

[Nakosis]

Thats begging the question Nakosis. You have already given your ultimate conclusion with your "IF" in the beginning of the sentence, which is "no God".

The OP is theologically and Islamically correct and comes from the Islamic view that you cannot know God. So the question "IF God is our own making" does not compute from that point of view.

I didn't see where the OP directed this question toward only those of the Islamic faith.

 

[firedragon]

I didn't see where the OP directed this question toward only those of the Islamic faith.

Okay. So which other God believing faith says "God is our own making"? Thats not a valid statement to make and you know that. Thats an oxymoron, and you know that.

That was unexpected. Cheers.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Allah
"The God"
Allah is the Arabic language word referring to "God", "the Lord" and, literally according to the Qur'an, to the "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" in the Abrahamic religions. It does not mean "a god", but rather "the Only God", the Supreme Creator of the universe, and it is the main term for the deity in Islam. However, "Allah" is not restricted to just Islam, but is used by Christians and Jews in some regions.

Most Arabic-speaking Muslims, Middle-Eastern Christians and Arabic-speaking Jewish Communities (including the Yemenite Jews, several Mizraḥi communities and some Sephardim) use "Allāh" as the proper noun for "God". Etymologically, the name Allah is probably a contraction of the Arabic al-Ilah, “the God.” The name's origin can be traced back to the earliest Semitic writings in which the word for god was Il or El, the latter being an Old Testament synonym for Yahweh. Allah is the standard Arabic word for “God” and is used by Arab Christians as well . Allāh is found in the Qur'an and in Arabic translations of both the Tanakh and the Gospels and even in the Indonesian translations of the Bible. Christians believe that Allāh is ath-Thalouth al-Muqaddas - The Holy Trinity, thus whole Allāh is consisted from Abu-Father, Bin-Son, and Ruh-Spirit.

Outside the Arabic World, the use of "Allāh" is generally associated exclusively with Islam, and is used to refer specifically to the Islamic concept of God. It is nearly the same as the Jewish conception of a single God, but differs from the Trinitarian Christian conception of God. In Islam, the concept of one God is strictly observed. The Qu'ran refers to a Jewish belief in Ezra as the Son of God, although historical Judaism is also strictly monotheistic.

Islamic scholars often translate "Allāh" directly into English as "God", especially Qur'an alone Muslims. Other scholars feel that "Allāh" should not be translated arguing that "Allāh" is the term for "the Only God" in a glorified pronunciation. This is a significant issue when translating the Qur'an.

According to the tradition of Islam there are 99 Names of God. They are the names of God revealed in the Qur'an.

Hebrew and Aramaic.

Muslim and non-Muslim scholars often translate "Allāh" directly into English as "God"; and Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians refer to Allāh as God. Also, it is believed that in Islam, "Allāh" means the same God that the people of Christianity and Judaism faith believe in; in other words, the three prominent religions believe in the same God. However, some Muslim scholars feel that "Allāh" should not be translated, because they perceive the Arabic word to express the uniqueness of "Allāh" more accurately than the word "god", which can take a plural "gods", whereas the word "Allāh" has no plural form. This is a significant issue in translation of the Qur'an.

The word "Allāh" had been used in the Arabic tongue in the Jāhilīyah (pre-Islamic) period; it occurs in Arabic classical poetry and was also used by Jews in certain regions (for cognate Hebrew Elōah), as well as by the pagan tribes in the Arabian peninsula to signify a chief deity.

Along with Allāh, the pre-Islamic Arabs believed in a host of other terms to signify gods, such as Hubal and al-Lāt, al-`Uzzah, and Manah. Pre-Islamic Jews referred to their supreme creator as Yahweh or Elohim. This view of Allāh by the pre-Islamic pagans is viewed by Muslims as a later development having arisen as a result of moving away from Abrahamic monotheism over time since the building of the Kaaba. In the Qur'an, Muhammad orally transmits a rebuttal to this common belief at the time in the verse "17:40 Has then your Lord (O Pagans!) preferred for you sons, and taken for Himself daughters among the angels? Truly ye utter a most dreadful saying!". Secular historians, meanwhile, have postulated that monotheism is the result of an evolution from henotheism, the belief in a supreme deity as well as various lesser divinities. (See Judaism.) The pagan Arabians also used the word "Allāh" in the names of their children; Muhammad's father, who was born into pagan society, was named "`Abdullāh", which translates "servant of Allāh". "`Abdullāh" is still used for names of Muslim and non-Muslims (e.g. Christians also used the word, as testified by the Zabad inscription). "Abdullāh" was also the name of the father of Maimon, whose son Moses is the Jewish principal Rabbi commonly known in English as Maimonides. Maimonides himself wrote his works mostly in Arabic on which his name appear as "Mussa bin Maimun ibn Abdullah al-Kurtubi" ( موسى بن ميمون بن عبد الله القرطبي ).

The Hebrew word for deity, El (אל) or Elōah (אלוה, rarely אלה), was used as an Old Testament synonym for Yahweh (יהוה), which is the proper name for God according to the Tanakh. The Aramaic word for God is אלהא Elāhā ( Biblical Aramaic) and ܐܠܗܐ Alāhā ( Syriac), which comes from the same Proto- Semitic word (* ʾil-) as the Arabic and Hebrew terms; Jesus is described in Mark 15:34 as having used the word on the cross, with the ending meaning "my", when saying, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?" (transliterated in Greek as ἐλωι elō-i). One of the earliest surviving translations of the word into a foreign language is in a Greek translation of the Shahada, from 86-96 AH ( 705- 715 AD), which translates it as ὁ θεος μονος (ho theos monos) , literally "the lone god".

Allah (mcgill.ca)

 

[Nakosis]

Okay. So which other God believing faith says "God is our own making"? Thats not a valid statement to make and you know that. Thats an oxymoron, and you know that.

That was unexpected. Cheers.

Would you have been happier if I prefaced my post with "For those of us who don't believe in a God?" Although the largest group I usually speak for has only one member in it.

Also, believing in a Abrahamic God does not prevent the believer from creating a personal concept of God. The idea being that this implied knowing is knowledge of this self created concept of God regardless of the existence of God. Which seems to me completely in the vein of the OP.

 

[rational experiences]

As a natural history man human was born from two human parents. I wonder at human science theisms.

Claiming I know God the earth substances. Human conscious I know the atmospheric gases.

I learn from heavens as gases consciously then I force gods earth substances to convert to get what I want. I know God in science.

As a human I know planet earth exists it's heavens natural and need natural stability for our human life to continue.

Pretty basic human advice we tell God stories.

So if my coercive brother says to me I name earth number one science God he says I must believe him as like me he is human.

I say okay you tell me a female I am human and a human equal why haven't you really ever treated me as such?

Real answer he said maths science was a space womb as science of God mother theme. Which caused life to be nuclear irradiated. As human man choice invention. Trade. Greed. Human.

What I learnt from my brother

We said our parents were brother and sister. Seemingly you forget to apply your own preaching yourselves.

Biological science said next bio form one less body type are apes. And I know an ape is not any God being.

Men in science use maths. Let's add one more genesis to an ape. You get a human he says and thinks he is intelligent.

So as a female human I review the story God put the spirit of life into a living female humans womb. Magical.

Science tries to claim God put the spirit into an apes female womb and created human babies.

I think you all own a human ego problem in human reality. We are all only human. And your self presence human is only as old as you are today.

My parents human. The first parents of human are human.

I can never as a human own an ape parent. You would be in fact...time age today lying

Reasoning the sun not blasting earth is now small. As yesterday's sun is burnt out and gone. There is no past sun time.

 

[firedragon]

Would you have been happier if I prefaced my post with "For those of us who don't believe in a God?" Although the largest group I usually speak for has only one member in it.

Also, believing in a Abrahamic God does not prevent the believer from creating a personal concept of God. The idea being that this implied knowing is knowledge of this self created concept of God regardless of the existence of God. Which seems to me completely in the vein of the OP.

None of that makes one "God is our own making".

 

[Nakosis]

None of that makes one "God is our own making".

None of it doesn't. You might want to consider the conditional nature of the word "if".

 

[firedragon]

None of it doesn't. You might want to consider the conditional nature of the word "if".

Invalid.

 

[Nimos]

I believe in Allah, but who am I to tell others what to believe?

When I say islam say one should only follow Allah, that means a Muslim should only believe in the teaching of Allah, and not Mix other teachings from other religions in. It does not say nonmuslims are wrong.

Some Muslims say nonmuslims are wrong and other Gods does not exist.
I personally do not claim to know if there is or isnt other Gods.

I think you misunderstand me

Its not about you telling others what to believe. Imagine I were a Christian and Jesus to me were the son of God, because that is what the bible say. Then you come along and say that Jesus was just a prophet, because that is what the Quran say.

Either Jesus is the son of God as the bible claim or he is not. If I, as a Christian believe the bible is true, then you would automatically be wrong from my point of view, when you claim he is just a prophet, because that is not what the bible tells us.

Im not telling you to believe as I do, it is simply logical that I would think you were wrong, because if I didn't then it would make no sense for me to be a Christian.

So as you, I can also say that I don't mind that you follow Islam, that is up to you.

But the question that I asked you, still remains for me in this scenario as a Christian. Why would God of the bible, allow so many people to think that Jesus were just a prophet and not the son of God? If God want us to believe in him, wouldn't it make sense that Muslims, eventually all became Christians and accepted the bible as the truth and not the Quran?

So when I asked you about Allah and whether he cares, the same I could ask about the biblical God in this scenario. God doesn't seem to care much for atheists, Muslims or Hindus? Given that they from my perspective, believe in wrong teachings or gods, and a lot of people die with these beliefs and therefore ain't saved according to the bible. Shouldn't God be interested in all of these people believing in him so they don't believe in false gods?

Islam might not directly say that all other religions are wrong, but if the Quran say that there is only one God, then clearly that means that Hindus got it wrong.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I think you misunderstand me

Its not about you telling others what to believe. Imagine I were a Christian and Jesus to me were the son of God, because that is what the bible say. Then you come along and say that Jesus was just a prophet, because that is what the Quran say.

Either Jesus is the son of God as the bible claim or he is not. If I, as a Christian believe the bible is true, then you would automatically be wrong from my point of view, when you claim he is just a prophet, because that is not what the bible tells us.

Im not telling you to believe as I do, it is simply logical that I would think you were wrong, because if I didn't then it would make no sense for me to be a Christian.

So as you, I can also say that I don't mind that you follow Islam, that is up to you.

But the question that I asked you, still remains for me in this scenario as a Christian. Why would God of the bible, allow so many people to think that Jesus were just a prophet and not the son of God? If God want us to believe in him, wouldn't it make sense that Muslims, eventually all became Christians and accepted the bible as the truth and not the Quran?

So when I asked you about Allah and whether he cares, the same I could ask about the biblical God in this scenario. God doesn't seem to care much for atheists, Muslims or Hindus? Given that they from my perspective, believe in wrong teachings or gods, and a lot of people die with these beliefs and therefore ain't saved according to the bible. Shouldn't God be interested in all of these people believing in him so they don't believe in false gods?

Islam might not directly say that all other religions are wrong, but if the Quran say that there is only one God, then clearly that means that Hindus got it wrong.

My understanding of this is that it is said so in all the Abrahamic religions (maybe others too) that the God in the religion we follow is the right on, meaning do not add from other religions into example Islam or Christianity.
in my understanding, it means do not mix religions together and not follow multiple Gods.

Of course my understanding can be wrong.

 

[Nakosis]

Invalid.

As well as your apparent angst at my post. I've no idea why it bothers you so for me to express my opinion however, people are free to project whatever they feel a need to in a forum I suppose.

 

[firedragon]

As well as your apparent angst at my post. I've no idea why it bothers you so for me to express my opinion however, people are free to project whatever they feel a need to in a forum I suppose.

No bother Nakosis. Just trying to show you that it is illogical to ask how if a square is a triangle it can have four sides. But I think maybe you are bothered by that question. So people are free to project what they feel a need to in a forum I suppose.

Peace.

 

[Nimos]

My understanding of this is that it is said so in all the Abrahamic religions (maybe others too) that the God in the religion we follow is the right on, meaning do not add from other religions into example Islam or Christianity.
in my understanding, it means do not mix religions together and not follow multiple Gods.

Of course my understanding can be wrong.

That sound rather correct from what I know, its like that in most religions.

But it does make it rather difficult to figure out which one is the right one, if any.

Which I guess is also why a lot of people end up as atheists, communication is not really one of God's strong sides

 

[Spirit of Light]

That sound rather correct from what I know, its like that in most religions.

But it does make it rather difficult to figure out which one is the right one, if any.

Which I guess is also why a lot of people end up as atheists, communication is not really one of God's strong sides

I think some people have listening problems too Expecting God to do all the job

 

[Nimos]

I think some people have listening problems too Expecting God to do all the job

That might be very true

 

[loverofhumanity]

I know nothing.

 

[Ponder This]

Isn't it called belief and faith because we can not with 100% certainty know?

No.
Belief and Faith don't have to do with knowledge.
They have to do with trust and loyalty, such as those bonds which hold people together, or allow a person to live in hope.
Knowledge has to do with experiences and teachings, such as the information you read in books or things that you actually witness people do.

People talk about belief as a requisite to knowledge, but it isn't.
It may seem nice to arbitrarily cross the gap between knowledge and belief, perhaps to further the paradigm that you place your trust in some particular information.
But the reality is that people can be given all the information and still not believe.

 

[Neuropteron]

For those of us who believe in a God, often it is possible to read in discussion or debate "I know God thinking is like this, or I know what God meant by....."

But how can we know for sure, if we have not met God or spoken to God directly with God in front of us?
Even we know and maybe have a very deep understanding of the teaching, do we truly know God`s thoughts or do we understand fully what happened on earth when Adam and Eve walked on earth?

Isn't it called belief and faith because we can not with 100% certainty know?

Hi,

It's called faith because it either hasn't happened yet or because it cannot be proven true at this particular time.

For instance we can have faith that a certain prophecy will be fulfilled or believe in the existance of a creator.
In this instance the difference between being gullible and to believe any proclamation is that such faith is backed with valid demonstration confirming sufficiently the evidence of reality although it either hasn't happened yet or cannot be seen by physical means.(see Hebrew 11:1).

According to James "real" faith does not contain any doubt, because a person that has doubt will not be able to successfully have his faith tested.
James states that "he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about, in fact, let not that person suppose that he will receive anything from God, he is an indecive person, unsteady in all his ways".(James 1).

The popular definition of faith is as you say "not knowing with certainty", however the Bible's definition of faith is different.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Sorry, I really don't understand that

According to you are these true gods equal to that of Allah?

If you don't believe that these gods are real, then those people believing in these must obviously be wrong according to you. Its not a trick question or me trying to "expose" you. But wouldn't you agree, from a logical point of view, that when you say that Allah is the right God for you, and according to Islam there is only one god, then based on your beliefs, people that choose to not to believe in Allah, is not believing in anything you would consider real.
Its simply impossible, but you are right, that Allah might not be the God for them, but in that case, based on your beliefs they might as well believe in a picture of some spirit animal, because that would be as real as these gods. Because they won't find Allah through these gods, its in direct conflict with Islam and Christianity for that matter etc.


Again, Hindus do not believe in Heaven or Hell, so how would they get there? If Allah is the only God, then clearly the Hindus got it all wrong and it apparently doesn't seem to concern him, that they do not believe in him. I hope you see the conflict here?


I hope the above illustrate it, it is wrong for everyone that do not share that belief. Again as I started by saying in the first post, and you asked if it was a trick question:

Good point, also how can you all know what God is thinking or what he meant, if you believe in different ones?

Because its no different from any other religious person, if they do not believe in Allah, then obviously they think you are believing in a wrong God. Which is why I ask how everyone can know what God is thinking when they believe in different ones, because it conflict with each other.


I understand that, but we do agree that there are some things set in stone in some of these religions. Like in Islam there is one God, Jesus were a prophet etc. Muslims doesn't disagree on these things. Same with Christianity, there might be discussions about whether the holy trinity is true or not, but there is only one God.

But I think its interesting when you write this:
Allah is the right one for me, that does not mean it is so for others.

For you does it matter if you believe in the right God or not? Because you seem to express, that everyone can find there own way to God or Allah, through whatever god or religions they like, as long as it works for them?

Monotheism doesn't state that gods are not true. It states that only One is the God (difference between the God and a god).

Maybe these definitions would help:

The "God" usually means the Supreme being - "The All-Highest".

A "god" is a being more powerful than human.