Knowing God or thinking we know and understand God

[Spirit of Light]

For those of us who believe in a God, often it is possible to read in discussion or debate "I know God thinking is like this, or I know what God meant by....."

But how can we know for sure, if we have not met God or spoken to God directly with God in front of us?
Even we know and maybe have a very deep understanding of the teaching, do we truly know God`s thoughts or do we understand fully what happened on earth when Adam and Eve walked on earth?

Isn't it called belief and faith because we can not with 100% certainty know?

 

[The Hammer]

For those of us who believe in a God, often it is possible to read in discussion or debate "I know`s God think this or I know what God meant by....."

But how can we know for sure, if we have not met God or spoken to God directly with God in front of us?
Even we know and maybe have a very deep understanding of the teaching, do we truly know God`s thoughts or do we understand fully what happened on earth when Adam and Eve walked on earth?

Isn't it called belief and faith because we can not with 100% certainty know?

I know what the Gods want, thanks to their Myths.

When I interact with the Gods though, I get feelings that represent my interactions with them, but not their wants/desires outside of my own interpretation of the interaction.

They don't "speak" in a way that is comprehensible to human speech.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I know what the Gods want, thanks to their Myths.

When I interact with the Gods though, I get feelings that represent my interactions with them, but not their wants/desires outside of my own interpretation of the interaction.

They don't "speak" in a way that is comprehensible to human speech.

Do I understand you right if I say your intuition has become stronger in connection with God?

 

[The Hammer]

Do I understand you right if I say your intuition has become stronger in connection with God?

Absolutely.

I am much more attuned (intuition) and have become better at reading situations and even people's intentions, sometimes even before they speak.

Intuition is important.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Absolutely.

I am much more attuned (intuition) and have become better at reading situations and even people's intentions, sometimes even before they speak.

Intuition is important.

Yes I agree, the intuition does arise when one practices spiritual teaching, and the connection with God, or "the other side" may become very strong

 

[Nakosis]

For those of us who believe in a God, often it is possible to read in discussion or debate "I know`s God think this or I know what God meant by....."

But how can we know for sure, if we have not met God or spoken to God directly with God in front of us?
Even we know and maybe have a very deep understanding of the teaching, do we truly know God`s thoughts or do we understand fully what happened on earth when Adam and Eve walked on earth?

Isn't it called belief and faith because we can not with 100% certainty know?

If God is of our own making, which I believe any God we interact with is, then who other than ourselves would know this God?

Sure we read the myths and scripture so this allows one to create per the theology, mythology we come to understand. Still I think interpretation/understanding is personal. This creates a foundational knowledge that becomes our base-level understanding of God. This base-level understanding is the "God" people know.

It becomes very difficult for a person to let go of this truth about the God they know.

Part of being an atheist for me was to let go of this personal knowledge of God.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If God is of our own making, which I believe any God we interact with is, then who other than ourselves would know this God?

Sure we read the myths and scripture so this allows one to create per the theology, mythology we come to understand. Still I think interpretation/understanding is personal. This creates a foundational knowledge that becomes our base-level understanding of God. This base-level understanding is the "God" people know.

It becomes very difficult for a person to let go of this truth about the God they know.

Part of being an atheist for me was to let go of this personal knowledge of God.

I would not try to answer other people than my self
So my answer is that I do not know God enough to be able to say what God thinks or how God sees us human beings today. I have as you say a personal understanding or maybe I should say idea of what God is. But I am in no position to say I "know God"
I do also believe that my current understanding of God is not the actual truth of what God in its purest form is.

 

[Nimos]

For those of us who believe in a God, often it is possible to read in discussion or debate "I know God thinking is like this, or I know what God meant by....."

Good point, also how can you all know what God is thinking or what he meant, if you believe in different ones?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Good point, also how can you all know what God is thinking or what he meant, if you believe in different ones?

That is a trick question for sure right?

 

[Nimos]

That is a trick question for sure right?

Sort of

Obviously if people believe in different God(s), unless that specific belief allow for other gods to exist, then someone in all this, clearly don't know what the God they believe in is thinking or what what "he" meant, because everyone simply can't be correct. Again, unless such religion allows for more than a God.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Sort of

Obviously if people believe in different God(s), unless that specific belief allow of other gods to exist, then someone in all this, clearly don't know what the God they believe in is thinking or what what "he" meant, because everyone simply can't be correct. Again, unless such religion allows for more than a God.

I like both your questions

As a Sufi, I believe in Allah as you know, But I would not deny other people to believe in a different God or other deities they may do. If I can not fully understand Allah, who am I as a human being to complain about what other people believe

Am I correct in believing in just Allah? well according to the teaching I follow, Allah is the only God for Muslims, does it mean that there are no other Gods? I can not give a true answer, since I do not know, it would only be based on my belief and the teaching I currently follow.

 

[Nimos]

I like both your questions

As a Sufi, I believe in Allah as you know, But I would not deny other people to believe in a different God or other deities they may do. If I can not fully understand Allah, who am I as a human being to complain about what other people believe

Am I correct in believing in just Allah? well according to the teaching I follow, Allah is the only God for Muslims, does it mean that there are no other Gods? I can not give a true answer, since I do not know, it would only be based on my belief and the teaching I currently follow.

But what if a Christian came and said that he had no problem understanding God, Jesus and the holy trinity. So clearly since you don't fully understand it, you ought to be a Christian and Islam confused you?

Or lets say a Hindu did it. If he is not in doubt, maybe you chose the wrong God as of my example above that not everyone can be right?

So how would you tell whether the Hindu just think that he knows what is going on compared to what you believe? And how could the Hindu convince you that he was right and you were wrong, would that be possible?

 

[Spirit of Light]

But what if a Christian came and said that he had no problem understanding God, Jesus and the holy trinity. So clearly since you don't fully understand it, you ought to be a Christian and Islam confused you?

Or lets say a Hindu did it. If he is not in doubt, maybe you chose the wrong God as of my example above that not everyone can be right?

So how would you tell whether the Hindu just think that he knows what is going on compared to what you believe? And how could the Hindu convince you that he was right and you were wrong, would that be possible?

As I said earlier, I can not speak for others, and their belief, but I hold a belief in Allah and in Sufi teaching, that does not mean I am at a stage in the practice that I can know it all by now It takes year and years of practice, studying to understand the basics.
If someone comes along, claiming to know God on a personal level, and can say "God means this when saying" That is up to that person to believe, it is not up to me to judge those who say so. But I can ask, how do you "know"

I wish to hear that answer too

 

[Nimos]

As I said earlier, I can not speak for others, and their belief, but I hold a belief in Allah and in Sufi teaching, that does not mean I am at a stage in the practice that I can know it all by now It takes year and years of practice, studying to understand the basics.
If someone comes along, claiming to know God on a personal level, and can say "God means this when saying" That is up to that person to believe, it is not up to me to judge those who say so. But I can ask, how do you "know"

I wish to hear that answer too

Why do you think that God would want it to be difficult or a long process to believe in him? Because clearly not everyone is ending up believing what you believe, so clearly the method God have chosen doesn't really seem to work, wouldn't you agree? Because evidently a whole lot of people end up with the wrong religions?

Its not a matter of you not wanting to "interfere" with others beliefs, you unwillingly claim that they are wrong. Don't misunderstand me as trying to point you out, because atheists do this all the time against all religions, unwillingly our claim is that we don't believe that any God(s) exist and therefore we don't see any reason to believe that any religions are true either. Equally as any person that follows a different religion than yours, they also unwillingly claim that you are wrong, for the very same reason as atheists do. But maybe atheists are just more open about it, I don't know.

The big difference is, that as an atheist, I can easily say that I don't mind what someone believe, because I don't think any of them are true. But that doesn't really apply to you in the same way, because you do believe that a God exists, and that its the one you believe in. So the question, becomes relevant for you, of why you think that God chose such a complicated way for people to end up believing in him, because it clearly doesn't work, if God's intention is for humans to believe in him as a Sufi? Do you see why that is kind of weird?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why do you think that God would want it to be difficult or a long process to believe in him? Because clearly not everyone is ending up believing what you believe, so clearly the method God have chosen doesn't really seem to work, wouldn't you agree? Because evidently a whole lot of people end up with the wrong religions?

Its not a matter of you not wanting to "interfere" with others beliefs, you unwillingly claim that they are wrong. Don't misunderstand me as trying to point you out, because atheists do this all the time against all religions, unwillingly our claim is that we don't believe that any God(s) exist and therefore we don't see any reason to believe that any religions are true either. Equally as any person that follows a different religion than yours, they also unwillingly claim that you are wrong, for the very same reason as atheists do. But maybe atheists are just more open about it, I don't know.

The big difference is, that as an atheist, I can easily say that I don't mind what someone believe, because I don't think any of them are true. But that doesn't really apply to you in the same way, because you do believe that a God exists, and that its the one you believe in. So the question, becomes relevant for you, of why you think that God chose such a complicated way for people to end up believing in him, because it clearly doesn't work, if God's intention is for humans to believe in him as a Sufi? Do you see why that is kind of weird?

The belief is only the beginning After belief comes faith, then more and more wisdom arises about how to get back to God. It has to be difficult for humans because (in my understanding) if we are to become a part of heaven, we have to shred every human aspect (ego) before entering heaven. And that is very difficult to do, a belief is not enough, it is an inward full-time job to understand our own being, faults, egos, attachments, and so on. This is my understanding is why it takes time to enter heaven, and I can't say I am certain to enter heaven myself.

If others claim my belief is wrong, let them do so I have no wish to deny them their right to believe in something else. And I do not say other religions are wrong. I am very open toward other religions. (mainstream Islam would disagree with me I know)
I do not take your or others view of me and the belief I hold as a negative thing anymore It is sometimes a challenge, that is true, But it is also at that moment I learn more about my own being and my belief and faith.

I can not claim to know all about why atheists disagree with many religious people, but one thing maybe that different people within the same religious faith, can give you do different answers to the same question.
I think one of the reasons being that people are at different levels of their faith and that by this they do see the truth differently. And when an atheist reads or hears people saying the different answers to one question, it may be confusing to them?
You would probably be able to answer that last part for me

 

[SalixIncendium]

For those of us who believe in a God, often it is possible to read in discussion or debate "I know God thinking is like this, or I know what God meant by....."

But how can we know for sure, if we have not met God or spoken to God directly with God in front of us?
Even we know and maybe have a very deep understanding of the teaching, do we truly know God`s thoughts or do we understand fully what happened on earth when Adam and Eve walked on earth?

Isn't it called belief and faith because we can not with 100% certainty know?

Your questions assume no one has experienced God. Can you say with 100% certainty that no one has?

 

[Nimos]

If others claim my belief is wrong, let them do so I have no wish to deny them their right to believe in something else. And I do not say other religions are wrong. I am very open toward other religions. (mainstream Islam would disagree with me I know)
I do not take your or others view of me and the belief I hold as a negative thing anymore It is sometimes a challenge, that is true, But it is also at that moment I learn more about my own being and my belief and faith.

Not sure you got my question.

You believe in God and I assume you believe it is the right one? For you to reach a certain point in your beliefs you say you have to study hard and that it will take you a long time. Im an atheist and im not going to read your material or study what you are. Shouldn't or ought God not be interested in me believing in him, if he is not interested in it, what is the idea of him in the first place? Furthermore, a lot of people believe in God, but they believe in a wrong God, not the one you believe in, which raises the same question, shouldn't God be interested in these people believing in him, rather than some wrong one? Because these people are equally neglected by God as all atheists are.

So do your God cares about these people or not? Do you see the problem when you say "I have no wish to deny them their right to believe in something else." because I understand that, but shouldn't God care?

I can not claim to know all about why atheists disagree with many religious people, but one thing maybe that different people within the same religious faith, can give you do different answers to the same question.

This is basically the same for atheists and none atheists, why ain't you a Hindu? You answer is most likely that you are not convinced that it is true. Exactly the same that an atheist would say, we just say it for all religions. So your claim that all other religions are wrong except the one you believe in is exactly the same as what atheists claim. Because given that you believe in Islam, there is only one God, there is no Hindu gods or any other gods for that matter. So again, its fair that you don't mind what other people believe in, but doesn't that tell you something about Allah, that he doesn't care about that, given that so many believe in false gods?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Your questions assume no one has experienced God. Can you say with 100% certainty that no one has?

Of course, I can not say that by 100%, I can say that I have probably not experienced God in a way that could be seen as provable, I might have had some form of an intuitive experience of God. But it would have been me tricking my self to think it must have been a sign from God

 

[SalixIncendium]

I can say that I have probably not experienced God in a way that could be seen as provable...

This could be said for anything. I haven't experienced this thread in a way that is provable. I haven't experienced the plants around my patio in a way that is provable.

Experiences are, by definition, subjective.

...a sign from God

Since we're discussing signs, I was walking through the mall foraging for incense, and saw as sign in Forever 21's window that said "vegan leather." I'm guessing it was a sign from God since the lady that worked there couldn't tell me what "vegan leather" was. We agreed when I left that it's leather from a cow that didn't eat meat or imbibe any animal products, including milk. I'm still left wondering what a vegan cow eats as a calf...

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not sure you got my question.

You believe in God and I assume you believe it is the right one? For you to reach a certain point in your beliefs you say you have to study hard and that it will take you a long time. Im an atheist and im not going to read your material or study what you are. Shouldn't or ought God not be interested in me believing in him, if he is not interested in it, what is the idea of him in the first place? Furthermore, a lot of people believe in God, but they believe in a wrong God, not the one you believe in, which raises the same question, shouldn't God be interested in these people believing in him, rather than some wrong one? Because these people are equally neglected by God as all atheists are.

So do your God cares about these people or not? Do you see the problem when you say "I have no wish to deny them their right to believe in something else." because I understand that, but shouldn't God care?


This is basically the same for atheists and none atheists, why ain't you a Hindu? You answer is most likely that you are not convinced that it is true. Exactly the same that an atheist would say, we just say it for all religions. So your claim that all other religions are wrong except the one you believe in is exactly the same as what atheists claim. Because given that you believe in Islam, there is only one God, there is no Hindu gods or any other gods for that matter. So again, its fair that you don't mind what other people believe in, but doesn't that tell you something about Allah, that he doesn't care about that, given that so many believe in false gods?

Allah is the right one for me, that does not mean it is so for others. The teaching is Sufism may not be what others need to find God.
In my understanding, God is interested in all people so they can be able to believe in God, But does every human being have that ability? I am not sure. And yes in my understanding God does care about every single human being, but God has also given guidelines on how to get back to heaven, and if ego takes over for a human being, they will experience suffering,
In my understanding God is there all the time, right in front of us, so in a way, it is the human who has to find God, God already know and see us (after all he created us) and no the path to faith and belief in God is not made easy, and in my understanding, it has to be like that for us to "enlighten" to the truth.

What does the wrong God mean? Wrong to who?

Remember that this is only my own understanding of how religion and God can be experiences, it is not an answer set in stone, that what I answered is the only true answer, if I thought that I would be telling lies.