Kneeling in the NFL

[Akivah]

Although there is a recent controversy over Colin Kaepernick bending the knee for political reasons, there is an older controversy over Tim Tebow bending the knee for religious reasons. Is there a difference between the two? Should players be allowed to express either their politics or their religion on the field?

 

[Revoltingest]

It's up to the employers.

 

[Jainarayan]

I was not enamored of Tebow displaying his faith in such a grandiose manner (I gave him a pass on that because he's smokin' hot ).

But seriously, to me it's grandstanding and doing the exact opposite of what Jesus said. The difference is that Tebow put his money where his mouth is by being involved in charities, especially for kids. That is a Christian ideal. What are these other players doing to correct the social ills they are protesting? Nothing.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Although there is a recent controversy over Colin Kaepernick bending the knee for political reasons, there is an older controversy over Tim Tebow bending the knee for religious reasons. Is there a difference between the two? Should players be allowed to express either their politics or their religion on the field?

I'm of the opinion, that football games are at least originally, designed for people to have a lot of fun with friends and family and watch an exciting game of ball.

A chance for people to get away from things.

An oasis.....

Not turning it into yet another ad nauseam social and political rally, that takes away from all the fun that people have paid for and expect. I suspect a good number people don't like a religious convention either. That's why the NFL makes rules like this.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The ball is the wrong shape. The tickets are overpriced. Its an exclusive sport that is irrelevant to most people. That the universities are involved does not help.

 

[metis]

Should players be allowed to express either their politics or their religion on the field?

1st Amendment.

 

[YmirGF]

1st Amendment.

Sort of a gotcha, eh?

That said, most employers wouldn't be so understanding if you went into SJW mode on company time.

 

[Revoltingest]

1st Amendment.

The 1st Amendment is about prohibiting government from restricting speech.
And even this has limits.
Agreements between private parties (owners & players) are different.

Ref....
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the
people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[Poisonshady313]

1st Amendment.

The NFL isn't the government. The first amendment doesn't grant anyone the right to play professional football.

 

[Jainarayan]

1st Amendment.

No.

"However, the Court held that when a public employee engages in speech pursuant to their official job duties, they are generally not speaking as private citizens, but as public servants, and the employer’s interest qua employer is paramount. The Court rejected “the notion that the First Amendment shields from discipline the expressions employees make pursuant to their professional duties,” concluding, “Our precedents do not support the existence of a constitutional cause of action behind every statement a public employee makes in the course of doing his or her job.” http://apps.americanbar.org/labor/lel-annualcle/08/materials/data/papers/143.pdf

When a player puts on his uniform, he is now a representative of the company, and is speaking for the company. He is no longer a private citizen and is not protected by the First Amendment.

 

[Jainarayan]

The NFL isn't the government. The first amendment doesn't grant anyone the right to play professional football.

Besides, almost all states are at-will employment. There are few, if any, right-to-work states.

 

[metis]

Sort of a gotcha, eh?

Huh?

That said, most employers wouldn't be so understanding if you went into SJW mode on company time.

But then the owners would have to be careful not to get taken to court or sued for "wrongful termination". And then there's always a possibility of a walkout of employees.

The 1st Amendment was put there because it's easy to go along with things that don't bother us but it's much difficult to go along with things we don't like to see or hear. Trump has no use for such a pesky little document, and he's made that abundantly clear many times over.

 

[metis]

When a player puts on his uniform, he is now a representative of the company, and is speaking for the company. He is no longer a private citizen and is not protected by the First Amendment.

See above, as it's no where near as clear-cut as you think as there are other factors that may be involved and may have to be taken under consideration.

 

[Jainarayan]

See above, as it's no where near as clear-cut as you think as there are other factors that may be involved and may have to be taken under consideration.

Yeah possibly, even probably. My point is that all the people who are shrieking "constitutional rights! constitutional rights!" are talking out of their butts.

 

[Twilight Hue]

1st Amendment.

People can take that in so many directions.

Try applying the First Amendment here on RF. I'm sure there are limits.

 

[metis]

Yeah possibly, even probably. My point is that all the people who are shrieking "constitutional rights! constitutional rights!" are talking out of their butts.

Not necessarily since one can argue that the National Anthem has nothing to do with their being hired to play football. Yes, they represent the team, the owners, and city, but was it a condition of their hiring that they needed to stand for the National Anthem?

 

[Jainarayan]

but was it a condition of their hiring that they needed to stand for the National Anthem?

That's a valid point, but does everything I'm required to do in my employment need to be in writing? My job description doesn't say I'm required to move furniture. Barring an official letter from my orthopedic surgeon prohibiting that, do I have the right to tell my boss I'm not going to move that desk? If they have a contract, what does the contract include or exclude? I see a backlash to this Kaepernick and his buddies could never have foreseen. Do a search on NFL ratings. nfl ratings - Google Search Granted, the're open to interpretation, but when has there ever been discussions about the ratings other than for poor performance of teams?

 

[Revoltingest]

Not necessarily since one can argue that the National Anthem has nothing to do with their being hired to play football. Yes, they represent the team, the owners, and city, but was it a condition of their hiring that they needed to stand for the National Anthem?

Let's say that I get a job at the Metis Hospital.
You have a fine hospital, & it's popular with the residents of your diverse town.
I work there as the janitor, wearing your (hot pink) Metis Hospital uniform.
I'm a great janitor, always on time, always presentable, & doing the work of 2 normal workers.
On my way into work, I pause at the entrance, & address the arriving patients & visitors....
"Hi, I'm recruiting for the Nazi Party. We support the rights of straight white people."
This doesn't interfere with my janitorial duties.
It's before I start work.
Do you support my right to this political speech?

 

[columbus]

Besides, almost all states are at-will employment. There are few, if any, right-to-work states.

I am not sure what "right-to-work" means out there on the coast. But around here it means the right to bust unions by hiring non-members. Because the scabs have a right to work in union plants without supporting the union.
Tom

 

[suncowiam]

Sort of a gotcha, eh?

That said, most employers wouldn't be so understanding if you went into SJW mode on company time.

Here's the deal with sports.

The product of sports are the players. Without the players, the employers have no product.