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Keep hoping Climate Change Advocates

robocop (actually)

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yesterday I heard an article from Grist called "Wealthy countries are backing away from climate promises." This was on the heels of a Bloomberg article called, "Trump to drop climate change from environmental reviews."

That Bloomberg article said that from appliances to pipelines Donald Trump would not consider carbon footprint or climate affect in decisions, according to an insider.

I was planning to give up hope in a day so I just lied there and didn't do anything. What a difference a day makes! 24 little hours.

It turns out the first article was about privatizing the spending and the second was premature.
Now Reuters is reporting that, "A group of 17 Republican members of Congress signed a resolution on Wednesday vowing to seek "economically viable" ways to combat global warming,..."

Still better,

Reuters is reporting that "Trump seeks input from U.S. energy companies on Paris climate pact." He has many people from companies to his advisors that are telling him they want to be climate change advocates and stick with the Paris agreement, even if it is followed less. That is great news for me. Keep hoping climate change advocates.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
The global temp has already fallen dramatically since Trump was elected, credit where it's due, he's a pragmatist as Obama said.
 
robocop (actually)

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Oh, you mean nationally don't you? Do you have any link to show this?

I have no contention that it wasn't a cold winter, but the key word is weather. Weather changes over short periods of time. Climate is a long time trend.
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
robocop (actually) said:
Yesterday I heard an article from Grist called "Wealthy countries are backing away from climate promises." This was on the heels of a Bloomberg article called, "Trump to drop climate change from environmental reviews."

That Bloomberg article said that from appliances to pipelines Donald Trump would not consider carbon footprint or climate affect in decisions, according to an insider.

I was planning to give up hope in a day so I just lied there and didn't do anything. What a difference a day makes! 24 little hours.

It turns out the first article was about privatizing the spending and the second was premature.
Now Reuters is reporting that, "A group of 17 Republican members of Congress signed a resolution on Wednesday vowing to seek "economically viable" ways to combat global warming,..."

Still better,

Reuters is reporting that "Trump seeks input from U.S. energy companies on Paris climate pact." He has many people from companies to his advisors that are telling him they want to be climate change advocates and stick with the Paris agreement, even if it is followed less. That is great news for me. Keep hoping climate change advocates.
Click to expand...

Even if this alleged "climate change" disaster existed, what could we do about it? The US is probably the most emission regulated country in the world so how do we force the biggest polluters (i.e., China, India, Russia) from killing us all?
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
BSM1 said:
Even if this alleged "climate change" disaster existed, what could we do about it? The US is probably the most emission regulated country in the world so how do we force the biggest polluters (i.e., China, India, Russia) from killing us all?
Click to expand...


It's a good point, ultimately the most important one I think

If 2 molecules extra CO2 in 10000 of air could somehow ever warm the planet, and If for some reason we didn't like warmer weather, longer growing seasons, less energy needed for heating etc, we could cool the planet with particulates of some kind if we really wanted.

On the other hand, there are several real phenomena we know of, large meteor strikes, volcanic eruptions etc, which could quickly and drastically cool the planet for years- even glacial periods can advance fairly quickly.
we wouldn't be debating hypothetical computer simulated effects of climate change, we'd be too busy dropping dead. And there is absolutely no way to turn up the heat in an emergency.

i.e. the planet orbits on the cool side of the habitable zone as it is, we could do with a larger cushion of warmth
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
BSM1 said:
Even if this alleged "climate change" disaster existed, what could we do about it? The US is probably the most emission regulated country in the world so how do we force the biggest polluters (i.e., China, India, Russia) from killing us all?
Click to expand...
First of all, there's a lot we can do and some we have done already, plus both China and India are spending gobs of money to get off of fossil duels.
 
robocop (actually)

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Guy Threepwood,

Firstly, the actual ratio of CO2 to air is akin to a camp fire that you are beside getting warmed up by.
Secondly, the benefits are not at all beneficial. There are way more negative things than good things, including the possibility that we could take out the human race IMO.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
robocop (actually) said:
Guy Threepwood,

Firstly, the actual ratio of CO2 to air is akin to a camp fire that you are beside getting warmed up by.
Secondly, the benefits are not at all beneficial. There are way more negative things than good things, including the possibility that we could take out the human race IMO.
Click to expand...


a couple extra molecules in 10000 air can't effect anything much other than photosynthesis, making plants healthier and more drought resistant

The good things are all unambiguous, repeatable, observable, scientific.

The 'negatives' all require hypothetical computer simulated feedback loops, simulations that have show zero predictive ability for decades now.

I trust science; the method, over science; the academic/political opinion any day
 
robocop (actually)

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Well anyway, after another day the White House has announced that they don't give a care about climate change.

All you climate change deniers, keep hoping. The rest of us, let's think of this as a very small chance for humanity that we should all try to defend.
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
robocop (actually) said:
Well anyway, after another day the White House has announced that they don't give a care about climate change.

All you climate change deniers, keep hoping. The rest of us, let's think of this as a very small chance for humanity that we should all try to defend.
Click to expand...

Please tell me how you would defend against something like this?
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
BSM1 said:
How much time will it take? Can we survive in the interim?
Click to expand...
There's no simply way of answering this as there are too many variables. But the longer we wait, or the slower we respond appropriately, the greater likelihood of more problems. If the permafrost to thaws and releases huge quantities of methane gas, which has 20 times the retention rate of CO2, "Katy bar the door!".
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
metis said:
There's no simply way of answering this as there are too many variables. But the longer we wait, or the slower we respond appropriately, the greater likelihood of more problems. If the permafrost to thaws and releases huge quantities of methane gas, which has 20 times the retention rate of CO2, "Katy bar the door!".
Click to expand...

How can we prevent this?
 
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