Karma - Is it a Universal or Dharmic principle?

[Vinayaka]

If we're going to quote Beatles songs, how about "Instant Karma"? Or, was that a John Lennon song?

Here ya go.

 

[Vinayaka]

So Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are different names of the One God? And the same with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

No. Only according to Baha'i I guess, and some Hindus. I was speaking more about Siva, Ganesha, and Murugan, ones I'm familiar with. We vary a ton. My way is the only right way though. Don't ever forget that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't believe there is just one God. Are we still compatible? Atheists don't believe in God, period. Are you compatible with that? Are atheists and theists really the same thing?

I did not suggest you or anyone else had to believe in One God. I have explained that from what Baha'u'llah has written, it can be seen why the people have concluded what they have. Thus we are free to consider if it is right or wrong.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are different names of the One God? And the same with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

The Kitab-i-iqan contains that answer

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I wonder what sanchita karma there is to be born a Baha'i?

Sanchita karma is not real. Only karma as defined by Baha'is is real.

 

[CG Didymus]

No. Only according to Baha'i I guess, and some Hindus. I was speaking more about Siva, Ganesha, and Murugan, ones I'm familiar with. We vary a ton. My way is the only right way though. Don't ever forget that.

Thanks for video, but what was Yoko knitting? Is that symbolic of something?

And of course your way is the only right way. If it wasn't it would be wrong, right?

 

[CG Didymus]

The Kitab-i-iqan contains that answer

Regards Tony

This is the same book that said this about Noah... "Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace. None, however, heeded His call. Each day they inflicted on His blessed person such pain and suffering that no one believed He could survive."

But then Baha'is say he didn't live 950 years. And if he was almost killed by the people around him, how could he have the strength to build a boat? So, the Bible tells me one story. Baha'u'llah comes up with another. No, that doesn't explain anything. So I can't imagine what his explanation is for the many Gods of Hinduism.

 

[Dawnofhope]

How do Abrahamics explain people of no action, like permanently mentally disabled handicapped folks? How do their actions get them to heaven or hell?

Each soul is judged in accordance with their capacity as God is both just and compassionate.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sanchita karma is not real. Only karma as defined by Baha'is is real.

Oh year, right. I forgot.

 

[Vinayaka]

Each soul is judged in accordance with their capacity as God is both just and compassionate.

He sure doesn't seem to be doing a very good job with his planet here.

 

[CG Didymus]

He sure doesn't seem to be doing a very good job with his planet here.

It's a little complicated. Each soul is given one life in one body. Then that soul is judged for what that body did in that one life? And I say that "body" because it sure doesn't seem like the soul is in charge of the decisions that are made.

So that soul moves on to that next Baha'i spiritual world. God places that soul at a level that he judges as fair and just. That level is determined by how well the body did, with the capacity it was given, to grow spiritually. People that died young or had defective mental capacity are given "special" consideration, because they couldn't or didn't have the opportunity to develop the spiritual qualities needed for the next world.

So, I wonder, if some ruthless tyrant does something good before he dies, then what? His capacity to do good might have been so low that by doing one good thing was his test? That was the only hurdle they had to make it over to meet their requirement for doing good? While, a very loving, compassionate person does one bad thing at the end of his life and that dooms him? They were given great spiritual capacity, so it was easy for them to help others and do good until that one big test and they failed.

I don't know, but coming back to this Earth and living again in another situation to grow more spiritual. Or getting judged by this one life, and living in the spiritual world, based on how one screwed up their one chance or did well... or did, like probably the bulk of the people, stayed somewhere in the middle. They didn't do much good. Didn't do much bad. What was their capacity? And what will be their reward for being.... average?

 

[Vinayaka]

It's a little complicated. Each soul is given one life in one body. Then that soul is judged for what that body did in that one life? And I say that "body" because it sure doesn't seem like the soul is in charge of the decisions that are made.

So that soul moves on to that next Baha'i spiritual world. God places that soul at a level that he judges as fair and just. That level is determined by how well the body did, with the capacity it was given, to grow spiritually. People that died young or had defective mental capacity are given "special" consideration, because they couldn't or didn't have the opportunity to develop the spiritual qualities needed for the next world.

So, I wonder, if some ruthless tyrant does something good before he dies, then what? His capacity to do good might have been so low that by doing one good thing was his test? That was the only hurdle they had to make it over to meet their requirement for doing good? While, a very loving, compassionate person does one bad thing at the end of his life and that dooms him? They were given great spiritual capacity, so it was easy for them to help others and do good until that one big test and they failed.

I don't know, but coming back to this Earth and living again in another situation to grow more spiritual. Or getting judged by this one life, and living in the spiritual world, based on how one screwed up their one chance or did well... or did, like probably the bulk of the people, stayed somewhere in the middle. They didn't do much good. Didn't do much bad. What was their capacity? And what will be their reward for being.... average?

You're certainly demonstrating to me why I believe in karma, but even moreso reincarnation. When we judge how much we hate or love flying, for example, do we do it on the basis of one flight, or do we view it on the basis of having been on a hundred flights, some good, some bad? Hindus who believe in reincarnation see a much bigger picture, averaging it out over 100 lifetimes or more. So we've all been handicapped (or will be yet) died tragically or will, been rich, been selfish, been high class, been male, been female. It's like the entire spectrum of mankind and we've done it all, or will do it all.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

He sure doesn't seem to be doing a very good job with his planet here.

Personally I would see It as repetition of bad karma to blame all that is wrong on another, especially if they have offered the way forward.

I see we as humanity have to answer and I see we will answer for what we have done with such a great gift.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's a little complicated. Each soul is given one life in one body. Then that soul is judged for what that body did in that one life? And I say that "body" because it sure doesn't seem like the soul is in charge of the decisions that are made.

So that soul moves on to that next Baha'i spiritual world. God places that soul at a level that he judges as fair and just. That level is determined by how well the body did, with the capacity it was given, to grow spiritually. People that died young or had defective mental capacity are given "special" consideration, because they couldn't or didn't have the opportunity to develop the spiritual qualities needed for the next world.

So, I wonder, if some ruthless tyrant does something good before he dies, then what? His capacity to do good might have been so low that by doing one good thing was his test? That was the only hurdle they had to make it over to meet their requirement for doing good? While, a very loving, compassionate person does one bad thing at the end of his life and that dooms him? They were given great spiritual capacity, so it was easy for them to help others and do good until that one big test and they failed.

I don't know, but coming back to this Earth and living again in another situation to grow more spiritual. Or getting judged by this one life, and living in the spiritual world, based on how one screwed up their one chance or did well... or did, like probably the bulk of the people, stayed somewhere in the middle. They didn't do much good. Didn't do much bad. What was their capacity? And what will be their reward for being.... average?

This talk about the spiritual journey and karma, reminds me of a favorite prayer. I can say that my motivation as a Baha'i is not for ones own self, I see it becomes a motivation for all. The self aspect is to change so one can serve all, unhinded by self motivation, we ask that the unconstrained lights our way.

The prayer is this one, the ending very interesting;

Vouchsafe unto me, O my God, the full measure of Thy love and Thy good-pleasure, and through the attractions of Thy resplendent light enrapture our hearts, O Thou Who art the Supreme Evidence and the All-Glorified. Send down upon me, as a token of Thy grace, Thy vitalizing breezes, throughout the daytime and in the night season, O Lord of bounty.No deed have I done, O my God, to merit beholding Thy face, and I know of a certainty that were I to live as long as the world lasts I would fail to accomplish any deed such as to deserve this favor, inasmuch as the station of a servant shall ever fall short of access to Thy holy precincts, unless Thy bounty should reach me and Thy tender mercy pervade me and Thy loving-kindness encompass me.
All praise be unto Thee, O Thou besides Whom there is none other God. Graciously enable me to ascend unto Thee, to be granted the honor of dwelling in Thy nearness and to have communion with Thee alone. No God is there but Thee.
Indeed shouldst Thou desire to confer blessing upon a servant Thou wouldst blot out from the realm of his heart every mention or disposition except Thine Own mention; and shouldst Thou ordain evil for a servant by reason of that which his hands have unjustly wrought before Thy face, Thou wouldst test him with the benefits of this world and of the next that he might become preoccupied therewith and forget Thy remembrance."

I see that this life is to understand that all Good is from God, all the rest is from our own selves.

Hope you are well. Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

This talk about the spiritual journey and karma, reminds me of a favorite prayer. I can say that my motivation as a Baha'i is not for ones own self, I see it becomes a motivation for all. The self aspect is to change so one can serve all, unhinded by self motivation, we ask that the unconstrained lights our way.

The prayer is this one, the ending very interesting;

Vouchsafe unto me, O my God, the full measure of Thy love and Thy good-pleasure, and through the attractions of Thy resplendent light enrapture our hearts, O Thou Who art the Supreme Evidence and the All-Glorified. Send down upon me, as a token of Thy grace, Thy vitalizing breezes, throughout the daytime and in the night season, O Lord of bounty.No deed have I done, O my God, to merit beholding Thy face, and I know of a certainty that were I to live as long as the world lasts I would fail to accomplish any deed such as to deserve this favor, inasmuch as the station of a servant shall ever fall short of access to Thy holy precincts, unless Thy bounty should reach me and Thy tender mercy pervade me and Thy loving-kindness encompass me.
All praise be unto Thee, O Thou besides Whom there is none other God. Graciously enable me to ascend unto Thee, to be granted the honor of dwelling in Thy nearness and to have communion with Thee alone. No God is there but Thee.
Indeed shouldst Thou desire to confer blessing upon a servant Thou wouldst blot out from the realm of his heart every mention or disposition except Thine Own mention; and shouldst Thou ordain evil for a servant by reason of that which his hands have unjustly wrought before Thy face, Thou wouldst test him with the benefits of this world and of the next that he might become preoccupied therewith and forget Thy remembrance."

I see that this life is to understand that all Good is from God, all the rest is from our own selves.

Hope you are well. Regards Tony

The question was about the varying capacities and situations the physical body can be put in. What does the soul do all this time? The soul and body are created at the same time? Is it created the moment the egg is successfully fertilized? If that growing body dies before it is born then it gets special consideration?

But the big question is the soul. I would imagine it is pure. It is spirit, but it gets judged by what the physical body did? So how much influence and how much culpability did the soul have in the bad behavior and bad choices the body made?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The question was about the varying capacities and situations the physical body can be put in. What does the soul do all this time? The soul and body are created at the same time? Is it created the moment the egg is successfully fertilized? If that growing body dies before it is born then it gets special consideration?

I see that the soul it is connected at conception.

All souls are under the protection and mercy of God. God doeth as He Willeth.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please re read this Tony. I can't understand it as written.

God gives a gift and instructions as how to use the gift. If we choose not to read the instructions, follow them, or appreciate the gift given, why is it we blame the gift giver?

In the History of all Faiths, this has been our way, I see that way is continuous bad karma.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

In the History of all Faiths, this has been our way, I see that way is continuous bad karma.

Not in my faith, Tony. Your faith sure. Or are you saying again (sigh) that you know more about my faith than I do?

 

[Dawnofhope]

He sure doesn't seem to be doing a very good job with his planet here.

I'm not sure what you mean. Would you elaborate?

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not sure what you mean. Would you elaborate?

If the Abrahamic God is in control, why all the suffering? Why doesn't he just wave his magic wand, and end war? If he loves everyone so much to send all the messengers, he could easily do that through them, no? (BTW, My God isn't in control in that way.)