D-MITCH777
Member
What are your views of Evolution?
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What are your views of Evolution?
It's organic elegance, both powerful and beautiful.
evolution is an observable fact.
Most people I've met in the Haredi (fundamentalist ultra-Orthodox) world don't believe in evolution or other kinds of science. But most everyone else I've ever encountered in the Jewish world (Haredim being a small but very vocal minority of the Jewish People) understands that evolution and other kinds of science are reality, and we interpret Genesis metaphorically, bearing that in mind.
It's worth noting, by the way, that Rambam (Rabbi Moshe Maimonides, 12th century, one of our greatest thinkers ever) said that if one is interpreting Torah in such a way that it appears to contradict everything that one understands to be true about the world as learned from reason and natural philosophy (which is medieval-speak for "science") then one is clearly interpreting Torah incorrectly, since it is (in his view) unthinkable that Torah would contradict the way that God's world actually functions.
Heretical so far only according to one Jewish member on this forum. I believe it's safe to say that the rest of us accept the scientific version.It's heretical to interpret science in a way that contradicts Torah and says G-d couldn't of created the world in 6 days.
This is some of the most bizarre belief system I have come across.It says in Gemara Rosh Hashana that the world was created fully mature. This is fact is never stressed enough these days. Therefor, the world could theoretically of been created in 6 24 hour days according to the Gemara and evolution would not be in any way conflicting. Additionally, all the other stories which seem to place the sequence of events out of place according to the theory of evolution, could be compatible. This is without a doubt an approach that cannot be challenged. Simply because it makes the claim that the world is young but looks old. Therefor, if we maintain the world is 5772 years old, yet you say this rock is 30 million years old - we Jews say we're both correct.
Heretical so far only according to one Jewish member on this forum. I believe it's safe to say that the rest of us accept the scientific version.
The Bible is not a scientific textbook, don't do the mistake of mixing the two.
This is some of the most bizarre belief system I have come across.
furthermore I would avoid implying that other members of this forum are heretics because they disagree with you.
My quote says nothing about the natural world. big difference.I find it hard to believe you find that belief system bizzare. Why is it foreign? You seem to be able to say that it's impossible the Torah can be taken literally regarding this story. Yet, the Gemara states the world was created maturely. You quote the Gemara in your signature yet find it bizzare that I quote the Gemara to say that the historical Jewish interpretation of this matter is not inherently mutually exclusive of evolution?
Your opinion. and yes even if the Gemara says so.The same belief system you find bizzare is the same belief system that Judaism has always held. It doesn't matter if evolution exists as a valid theory or not. It says clearly that the world was created fully mature. Therefor, whether it's true or not doesn't matter since the process was billions of years old already when the world was created.
Heretical so far only according to one Jewish member on this forum. I believe it's safe to say that the rest of us accept the scientific version.
The Bible is not a scientific textbook, don't do the mistake of mixing the two.
furthermore I would avoid implying that other members of this forum are heretics because they disagree with you.
My quote says nothing about the natural world. big difference.
Your opinion. and yes even if the Gemara says so.
The Gemara is wrong.I find it hard to believe you find that belief system bizzare. Why is it foreign? You seem to be able to say that it's impossible the Torah can be taken literally regarding this story. Yet, the Gemara states the world was created maturely.
Two things:The Gemara is wrong.
Two things:
To debate in the Judaism DIR is expressly prohibited.
To say such puts one's opinions outside of both Conservative and Orthodox Judaism, which implies that one should take those opinions to another part of the forum.
Its a modern interpretation of the Gemara in light of modern scientific revelations. the Gemara says nothing, yes NOTHING about geological datings in billions of years which are a direct result of modern science. face it, the modern theory of evolution has nothing to do with the Gemara.Incorrect. That is not my opinion. I didn't make this up. It's in the Gemara.
Of course it does. I don't try to mix Rabbinic or Talmudic sayings with modern science. in my university the Biology class was in a different building from the Judaism class.Whether or not your quote talks about the natural world is irrelevant. The point is, you quote the Gemara and find this belief strange. Why not say the whole thing is strange?
:yes:The Gemara is wrong.
Then why don't you say anything to Yochai who pulled the 'heretic' card first. the rest of us were having a perfectly normal discussion without refering to each other as such.Two things:
To debate in the Judaism DIR is expressly prohibited.
This is neither the Conservative nor the Orthodox DIR. but I agree, Yochai is forcing a debate on the rest of us. he could have simply stated his opinion without arguing or preaching.To say such puts one's opinions outside of both Conservative and Orthodox Judaism, which implies that one should take those opinions to another part of the forum.
Perhaps he can elaborate here.This is neither the Conservative nor the Orthodox DIR. but I agree, Yochai is forcing a debate on the rest of us. he could have simply stated his opinion without arguing or preaching.
Its a modern interpretation of the Gemara in light of modern scientific revelations. the Gemara says nothing, yes NOTHING about geological datings in billions of years which are a direct result of modern science. face it, the modern theory of evolution has nothing to do with the Gemara.
Of course it does. I don't try to mix Rabbinic or Talmudic sayings with modern science. in my university the Biology class was in a different building from the Judaism class.
:yes:
Then why don't you say anything to Yochai who pulled the 'heretic' card first. the rest of us were having a perfectly normal discussion without refering as such to each other.
This is neither the Conservative nor the Orthodox DIR. but I agree, Yochai is forcing a debate on the rest of us. he could have simply stated his opinion without arguing or preaching.
In my opinion, the tone here is wholly unwarranted.Maybe if you spent the time learning Torah you did biology, you'd realize properly what I'm saying. I'm actually not trying to debate you. You clearly can't understand what I'm saying. This is not a modern interpertation of the Gemara. Be honest, have you even learned Gemara before in your entire life? I mean properly. Not from Soncino or Artscroll?
Nor is it improved when filtered through a 'No True Scottish Talmud Scholar' fallacy.I mean properly. Not from Soncino or Artscroll?
Yes.My interpretation is not a modern interpretation. It's an ancient opinion in Judaism which has been around thousands of years before me stating that the world was created fully mature.
Pesachim 94b
Rabbi Yehudah Hanasi says that the gentiles' scientific theory is more probably correct than Chazal's:
פסחים צד: (ש"ס ווילנא ז"ל
חכמי ישראל אומרים ביום חמה מהלכת למטה מן הרקיע ובלילה למעלה מן הרקיע וחכמי אומות העולם אומרים ביום חמה מהלכת למטה מן הרקיע ובלילה למטה מן הקרקע א"ר ונראין דבריהן מדברינו שביום מעינות צוננין ובלילה רותחין. עכ"ל
The Sages of Israel maintain: The sun travels beneath the sky by day and above the sky at night; while the Sages of the nations of the world maintain: It travels beneath the sky by day and below the earth at night. Said Rabbi: And their view is preferable to ours, for the wells are cold by day but warm at night. [translation by Rabbi Dr. H. Freedman in The Babylonian Talmud, Rabbi Dr. I. Epstein, ed., Seder Mo'ed Vol. IV (Pesahim), London: Soncino, 1938]