John Macarthur opens church

[dad]

Go ahead and have services outside, with masks, and distanced. Or have the services online.

Having people packed together inside without masks should be a criminal offense in this situation.

Freedom of worship, ever heard of it?

 

[dad]

lol Yeah, I've been told that before.

Best wishes, and I do sincerely hope you don't catch Covid.

Thanks...
Heb 2:15 - And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage

 

[Polymath257]

Freedom of worship, ever heard of it?

Of course. And, as with all freedoms, such is limited by other freedoms and concerns.

In this case, it is simply wanton disregard for human life.

 

[metis]

Of course. And, as with all freedoms, such is limited by other freedoms and concerns.

In this case, it is simply wanton disregard for human life.

Exactly, which is why if one is truly "pro-life" they must keep in mind what we know how the virus is passed and what can be done to lessen its spread.

 

[SkepticThinker]

If "possibility" is the standard... why leave home to buy food? Or... they can't have that person go take a shower and wash their clothes before hugging everyone like my son did who had to go to work whether he wanted to or not?

Because food is a necessity of life. Human beings die without food.
Sorry but that's a silly question. And it's one that I'm tired of hearing because the answer is glaringly obvious.

 

[SkepticThinker]

People are hungry for God's word. Some churches also help people, handicapped, hungry, poor, etc. Now the riots do not help people, how is it you try to single out Christians? MacArthur has said he feels that doing what the bible says and meeting is an essential service.

The people where I live attend online services or outdoor services (with masks on, of course). And our current COVID outbreak is no where near as bad as the one in the US.
What's the big deal?

 

[Kenny]

Because food is a necessity of life. Human beings die without food.
Sorry but that's a silly question. And it's one that I'm tired of hearing because the answer is glaringly obvious.

But I offered a solution. We don't have to live our lives under the burden of "possibilities" but rather adjust our lives to minimize our potential infection.

As one young person said about her constant presence in church... "It is my safe zone". So what is a "necessity" is a matter of perspective.

 

[SkepticThinker]

We all die in a matter of time. The issue is what do we do in the meantime?

Prevent as many premature deaths as possible.

 

[metis]

As one young person said about her constant presence in church... "It is my safe zone". So what is a "necessity" is a matter of perspective.

But that largely depends on how the church itself is set up, especially since some of the worst "super-spreaders" have occurred at church services.

Ours is set up with masks and social distancing being absolutely mandatory with no congregating before or after the services. I talked with our priest about three weeks ago and asked him how many have reported having the virus, and he said there were only two and they both survived. And our church is a rather large one, especially compared to neighboring Protestant ones, seating 1500 at capacity.

Also, Catholic services are televised through a local t.v. station plus ETWN, and our one daughter's Judaism services are live-streamed. We also have auto-donations, which my wife & I have used since March.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And what is actually locking down for a month? What continues, what stops? Who makes the determination that we’re clear, and when? How do we know who’s carrying the virus? Mandatory testing of everyone? And if I refuse, and I will... make me disappear in the middle of the night? Calling August Pinochet! C’mon, this is not reality. It is fear and hysteria.

Um, I'd be careful not to be inciting fear and hysteria in a post admonishing others for inciting fear hysteria.

 

[Jainarayan]

Um, I'd be careful not to be inciting fear and hysteria in a post admonishing others for inciting fear hysteria.

So report me. So sick of people here thinking they have all the answers and shouting down others, pushing their own opinions and claiming to cite medical experts and speaking like experts. No wonder there are few respondents from other points of view and sources. Contrary to forum mission. How’bout that?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The greater rights constitutionally and morally are seen to outweigh local laws by some people. Should we agree?

John MacArthur to Pastors: ‘Open Your Church’

I'm not going to judge those people. Everything else is open, why not churches and other places of worship? If they mask up and socially distance, I fail to see what the problem is. And I don't want to hear "stay home" because I work full time in retail. Not all of us are ****ing office workers who do their work over Zoom or retired.

 

[SkepticThinker]

But I offered a solution. We don't have to live our lives under the burden of "possibilities" but rather adjust our lives to minimize our potential infection.

And yet you still want people crowding into churches?

As one young person said about her constant presence in church... "It is my safe zone". So what is a "necessity" is a matter of perspective.

It may be her mental or emotional safe zone, but without masks and social distancing it definitely isn't a physically/medically safe zone for her or anyone else.

Let's not muck around here. Humans need food to survive. And water. Those are actual necessities that must be ingested in order for a human being to continue living. Therefore, human beings must be able to access such things in order to continue living. But even with that, during COVID we have made accommodations so that people may access these necessities of life - we have curbside pickup, delivery, mask and distancing requirements inside stores, dropping food off by neighbours, etc. You know, like safe ways to satisfy the necessities of life.

As far as church and worship are concerned, one can pray at home, one can pray online, people can meet outside with masks and social distancing, there are multiple different possibilites. As I pointed out, the churches around my area have been acting extremely responsible in holding online and outdoor services, even when the infection rates decreased somewhat. What's wrong with your church that you all can't manage to do such simple things in order to save lives?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It may well be that you don't care if you get sick -- or die. But is it right for you to assume that because you don't care, nobody else does, either?

You realize that the person you're talking to lost his longtime job due to the lockdowns? Look, I'm not trying to get personal but I notice that many of the people on this board lambesting those who question the need to shut everything down and stay home are up there in age and likely retired, or can otherwise avoid the public. Not all of us can. Most can't. I sure can't. I have to take the bus, even! Some fools were even saying we should shut public transportation down. How privileged they are to think that's even an option. People need to work to make a living in America and if you lose your income, there's no real help coming. Yeah, a lot of people would rather get Covid than to lose their livelihood and home, when it comes down to it. People need to be more understanding of others. This is real life and things are desperate.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So report me. So sick of people here thinking they have all the answers and shouting down others, pushing their own opinions and claiming to cite medical experts and speaking like experts. No wonder there are few respondents from other points of view and sources. Contrary to forum mission. How’bout that?

Why would I report you?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy in your argument. Which apparently has angered you quite a bit.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You realize that the person you're talking to lost his longtime job due to the lockdowns? Look, I'm not trying to get personal but I notice that many of the people on this board lambesting those who question the need to shut everything down and stay home are up there in age and likely retired, or can otherwise avoid the public. Not all of us can. Most can't. I sure can't. I have to take the bus, even! People need to work to make a living in America and if you lose your income, there's no real help coming. Yeah, a lot of people would rather get Covid than to lose their livelihood and home, when it comes down to it. People need to be more understanding of others. This is real life and things are desperate.

I am not retired. I take the bus to work. I don't have much in the way of savings. I went to work all throughout the pandemic so far, because the other two girls at my office both have compromised immune systems. We all decided amongst us that I would be the one to go into work, given their situations. Despite the fact that I have continued working, my paycheck has dwindled down to next-to-nothing, given that we've had to trim down our operating hours. I've had to take government assistance to make up some of the difference. I do not like any of this. Nobody does. I want to go back to normal. And the only way anything even close to that is going to happen, is if we take the necessary safety measures NOW.

I'm also lucky enough to live in Canada, where my healthcare is covered. I recognize that many, many Americans do not have healthcare coverage. I can only imagine how much it would cost an American for a hospital stay to receive treatment for COVID.

Also, how do you keep an economy going when hundreds and thousands of people are sick and/or dying? A lot of people seem to be ignoring that part. If you don't fix the overall infection/spread problem, the economy isn't going to just fix itself.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am not retired. I take the bus to work. I don't have much in the way of savings. I went to work all throughout the pandemic so far, because the other two girls at my office both have compromised immune systems. We all decided amongst us that I would be the one to go into work, given their situations. Despite the fact that I have continued working, my paycheck has dwindled down to next-to-nothing, given that we've had to trim down our operating hours. I've had to take government assistance to make up some of the difference. I do not like any of this. Nobody does. I want to go back to normal. And the only way anything even close to that is going to happen, is if we take the necessary safety measures NOW.

I'm also lucky enough to live in Canada, where my healthcare is covered. I recognize that many, many Americans do not have healthcare coverage. I can only imagine how much it would cost an American for a hospital stay to receive treatment for COVID.

Also, how do you keep an economy going when hundreds and thousands of people are sick and/or dying? A lot of people seem to be ignoring that part. If you don't fix the overall infection/spread problem, the economy isn't going to just fix itself.

Well, I said "many", obviously it's not all.

The US has a population of over 330 million people and it's not generally killing off or making very sick young working age people with no pre-existing conditions. I see no reason why those at risk (the elderly and people with pre-existing conditions) can't quarantine themselves whole the rest of us go about our business (while still following safety precautions).

The economic fallout from destroying the economy with lockdowns and shuttered businesses, is going to be far larger. It's going to lead to more social unrest, too, like the first big lockdown here ended up with what we saw over the summer. People aren't going to merrily sit at home while unemployed and isolated. The anger, frustration and depression will show itself again. And what about the rates of suicide, substance abuse and domestic violence that have shot up this year? The rate of OD deaths in my city shot up throughout this year and it's already a bad problem here (the Hilltop neighborhood on the West side here is experiencing an opiod epidemic).

 

[Jainarayan]

Why would I report you?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy in your argument. Which apparently has angered you quite a bit.

There’s no hypocrisy, that’s your opinion. Go back and understand what I wrote.

 

[SkepticThinker]

There’s no hypocrisy, that’s your opinion. Go back and understand what I wrote.

I think I've understood very well what you wrote.

You complained about others inciting fear about the spread of COVID, as you were inciting fear about being rounded up in the night and taken away for not following COVID protocols.
Please, tell me what I've misunderstood.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And as I said, and will say again, and continue to say, you have no right to demand that other people adjust their lives to assuage your fears. That is selfishness. And I’ll be perfectly blunt, and for the record, you are not my responsibility any more than I am yours. It’s incumbent on you to protect yourself, not for me to protect others when they can protect themselves. That said, yeah I do wear a mask when I’m out. Not because I have any fear of infecting anyone or being infected. It’s because I can’t be bothered getting into a **** storm with some Karen in Shop Rite. If it were optional you best believe I would not wear it.



You’re assuming no one but you takes precautions.

Much like there is no right to blow cigarette smoke in someone's face (any resumting punches would be well deserved), you have no right to breathe your germs on people while we have a pandemic involving a highly contagious, destructive, and fairly deadly virus. And to complicate things further the typical case has people being most contagious just before the onset of symptoms.
And drunk driving laws says we already do things as a preventive measure against reckless and selfish behaviors that sees other people paying the price. Pollution laws are basically the same. Amd public smoking bans.