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Jesus

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Sam Harris is an idiot when it comes to religion, just like the rest of the "New Atheists". They are totally ignorant of theology and philosophy. They are incapable of having serious conversations about the topic above an elementary school level. He should stick to his watered down Buddhist meditation and be quiet about other religions, that he doesn't understand.
Ad hom instead of addressing the point. Ho hum.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
My only objection to scripture is the parts that paint an epitome of sadistic God and bigotry that divides people...the rest, when promoting altruism, mercy, self denial, humility, self control, sacrifice, fidelity to spouse, wisdom, is great.
It is my belief that people create God in their own image.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I hope God loves unconventional believers like you Frank, as much as I do. :) . People like you, defending the God of Abraham, despite what he has done to victimize and condemn , you defend him like he loves lepers as much as saint Francis of Assisi.

You are bigger than any God or christian who condemns , judges those who have afflictions, vices, "disorders" from abuse, neglect, or powerlessness over sin, that they pray to God in vain for healing, for enlightenment to end their confusion.

If God is more loving than saint Francis of Assisi, or any good mother or martyr I meet, I love him.

I love God in those who are in agony. That is where I see Jesus. Frankenstein is , the monster God condemned to be despicable, rejected, tortured with confusion, fallen nature they cannot control. That is Jesus, I pray God sets poor Jesus free.

Lucifer means morning star, lightbearer, scripture says Jesus is called " morning star, light of the world", Lucifer. I hope you get well Jesus. I love you!
:glomp:
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
- 1 John 4:7-8
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Ad hom instead of addressing the point. Ho hum.

There is no point as he doesn't even understand what he's talking about in the first place. He's too ignorant. He wouldn't understand what a Christian Mystery is. He's an atheist Jew from LA who grew up irreligious so I wouldn't expect him to know much of anything about Christian theology and philosophy, anyway. He's just spouting dumb stereotypes there.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So 2 billion people that believe Jesus physically rose from the grave are wrong? Wow! That’s a lot of gullible people! Haha.

Who says that they're wrong? I don't think that people are gullible for believing it, although I do recall in my younger days when such beliefs were imposed upon me when I didn't even know enough to question it.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Kids usually question everything as they should.
An inquiring mind wants to know.
In order for the mind to work it needs to be open like a working parachute.
However, some people's minds are so far wide open that one could think one's brains could fall out.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
So 2 billion people that believe Jesus physically rose from the grave are wrong? Wow!......................
I find the Bible is correct at 1st Peter 3:18 B stating that resurrected Jesus was made alive (KJV quickened) in the ' spirit ' ( spirit body )
God transformed pre-human spirit Jesus' life to physical life on Earth til God resurrected Jesus back to his pre-human spirit body.
Spirit Jesus is the Jesus that appeared in front of his God - Hebrews 9:24
After all ' flesh......' (physical) can Not inherit the kingdom......... - 1st Cor. 15:50
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
I find the Bible is correct at 1st Peter 3:18 B stating that resurrected Jesus was made alive (KJV quickened) in the ' spirit ' ( spirit body )
God transformed pre-human spirit Jesus' life to physical life on Earth til God resurrected Jesus back to his pre-human spirit body.
Spirit Jesus is the Jesus that appeared in front of his God - Hebrews 9:24
After all ' flesh......' (physical) can Not inherit the kingdom......... - 1st Cor. 15:50
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Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Kids usually question everything as they should.

I got to an age where I started asking questions, but nobody really had any answers.

Ultimately, I don't think anyone really knows the answers to a lot of these questions. People can believe whatever they want; I have no quarrel with that whatsoever. But how does anyone actually know?

I'm not even sure if we have a need to know - or even a need to believe - even if there is a God.
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
I got to an age where I started asking questions, but nobody really had any answers.

Ultimately, I don't think anyone really knows the answers to a lot of these questions. People can believe whatever they want; I have no quarrel with that whatsoever. But how does anyone actually know?

I'm not even sure if we have a need to know - or even a need to believe - even if there is a God.
I had a need to know 15 years ago and I found my answers.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
There is no point as he doesn't even understand what he's talking about in the first place. He's too ignorant. He wouldn't understand what a Christian Mystery is. He's an atheist Jew from LA who grew up irreligious so I wouldn't expect him to know much of anything about Christian theology and philosophy, anyway. He's just spouting dumb stereotypes there.
Still ad hom and no substance. He made a point that some religious beliefs are akin to those that would be considered mad if held by an individual alone. Telling me how ignorant you think he is doesn't actually address the point. What do you think he doesn't know that would make a substantive difference to the point?
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Kids usually question everything as they should.
From what I recall, I was the only one who questioned the validity of religion in my primary school class - when I found out that there were so many different and conflicting religious beliefs. So it seems most were more accepting than questioning. :oops:
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
From what I recall, I was the only one who questioned the validity of religion in my primary school class - when I found out that there were so many different and conflicting religious beliefs. So it seems most were more accepting than questioning. :oops:
Did you question all the children? When your a teen your still a child as well.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
:eek:Did you question all the children? When your a teen your still a child as well.
I wasn't a teen, given I was at most about ten or eleven. And since I can't recall any questioning of what was taught to us (amongst others) and the look of horror when I did mention this to some, I suspect they had swallowed the bait whole.

Children will question many things but obviously they also will accept many things too, especially when these things appear or are explicitly taught in the same environment that they generally are taught within (these are the things to believe) - at home or in their schools - and hence why so many will accept one particular version of a religious belief over another (depending upon where they are born mostly) even though this might be vastly different than any others or much the same but with contradictions. Apart from the fact of their simple lack of knowledge and/or ability to question adequately (so as to accept what is delivered), there is the factor of establishment - for example, the successes of science or the grandeur and long life of many religions - which takes some courage to challenge usually. But where the former (science) is at least able to be tested so as to deliver what it promises, but where all too often one has to simply accept the religious writings from the past, sometimes literally, so as to believe in that particular religion. If a child has little ability to question science - until later when suitably educated - how could they do this for religious beliefs when the material is so much more obscure and less available? Even for a child, 'have faith' is hardly the best answer - well, perhaps not for the more thinking ones, that is.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
There was a time where almost everyone on earth believed in geocentrism. In a few more centuries, the majority of people today will probably be proven wrong about many more things that have been accepted as common knowledge.

That's what happens when you're rational: you change your beliefs in light of new information. We've been doing this for millennia now.
I believe Jesus will prove the nay sayers wrong when He returns.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
People are gullible and often get things wrong. Have you only just realised this?

This is doubly so when some belief is embedded in their culture/religion.

"This to me is the true horror of religion, it allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions what only lunatics could believe on their own. If you wake up tomorrow morning thinking that saying a few Latin words over your pancakes is going to turn them into the body of Elvis Presley - you have lost your mind. But if you think more or less the same thing about a cracker and the body of Jesus you're just a Catholic."​
-- Sam Harris​
I believe that is true the Bahai's get it wrong because they listen to a man instead of listening to God. The Muslims get it wrong because they listen to Imams who misinterpret the Qu'ran.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I got to an age where I started asking questions, but nobody really had any answers.

Ultimately, I don't think anyone really knows the answers to a lot of these questions. People can believe whatever they want; I have no quarrel with that whatsoever. But how does anyone actually know?

I'm not even sure if we have a need to know - or even a need to believe - even if there is a God.


Some things only God knows, and God ain't telling.

But I do think we have a need to know; or at least a desire to know.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
I believe that is true the Bahai's get it wrong because they listen to a man instead of listening to God. The Muslims get it wrong because they listen to Imams who misinterpret the Qu'ran.
What on earth has that got to do with anything I said?
 
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