Jesus vs Paul (eating idol meat)

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
The attitude which is seen in your post is the same "holier than thou" Isaiah wrote about (65:1-7), "I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom."

SL what was written on those tablets of Stone by GOD'S finger? The "torah" or the Decalogue/ten words??
Did GOD tell Abraham to keep HIS blessings found in HIS Laws to himself or the be a blessing to the "nations"/Gentiles.?
Since GOD isn't a respecter of persons, Why the animosity towards Paul who pointed out the continued false beliefs of the Jewish people in regards to a right relationship to GOD and his fellow Beings?

Your postings are contrary to the Spirit of the righteous loving relationship which is from GOD.

When are you planning to return to the OP question?
Click to expand...

You are confusing my words. Of course YHVH is NOT a respecter of persons. You assumed that because I stated that the New Covenant was between Israel and Judah that I was dismissing gentiles. Gentiles have always been allowed to be included into the Covenant (Old and New). The fact remains that the covenant was MADE with Israel and Judah, not Gentiles.

SL, First, Those people who were at the foot of Sinai when GOD spoke and wrote that covenant were the descendants of Jacob and a large "mixed Multitude--gentiles". ALL the people attested, "all the Lord GOD says, we will do".
Therefore, as you now admit, Gentiles "have always been allowed to be included into the Covenant(Old and New).
GOD never excluded any Believer. GOD'S Salvation is for ALL who desire to have GOD as their GOD and have/submit to GOD'S LOVE Laws as the rule of their lives.
It has been mankind--no matter their ethnic background-- who have, by their own will. estranged themselves from the Creator GOD,(As Isaiah was showing above).

The Christian assertion that YHVH made a covenant with Gentiles is completely false. He has always made His covenants with HIS people and He allows Gentiles to be included into it IF they keep His commandments.

SL, Who are HIS people? Above you acknowledge Gentiles "have always"---now you are reverting back to Jews vs. Gentiles.
When GOD called Abraham out from idol worshipers, there was NO JEW--- only people who had been scattered over the face of the earth because they failed in their obedience to GOD.(They setup gods of their own choosing.)
What's a gentile? Hebrew=gowy=nations; heathen; gentile
Gen.12:2, GOD said of Abraham, "I will make of thee a great nation(gowy)". Therefore, the context determines the word to be used,
Jacob's name was changed to Israel because the scriptures record that he found favor in the sight of GOD and man.(He prevailed/overcome) (no longer a "usurper").
So who are HIS people---The ones who overcome(Repented) the lusts of the world in obedience to the Creator GOD of all things.

Paul was in harmony with GOD'S Salvational plan and teachings---despite your nay-saying to the contrary.

 

[Simplelogic]

sincerly said: ↑
The attitude which is seen in your post is the same "holier than thou" Isaiah wrote about (65:1-7), "I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom."

SL what was written on those tablets of Stone by GOD'S finger? The "torah" or the Decalogue/ten words??
Did GOD tell Abraham to keep HIS blessings found in HIS Laws to himself or the be a blessing to the "nations"/Gentiles.?
Since GOD isn't a respecter of persons, Why the animosity towards Paul who pointed out the continued false beliefs of the Jewish people in regards to a right relationship to GOD and his fellow Beings?

Your postings are contrary to the Spirit of the righteous loving relationship which is from GOD.

When are you planning to return to the OP question?
Click to expand...




SL, First, Those people who were at the foot of Sinai when GOD spoke and wrote that covenant were the descendants of Jacob and a large "mixed Multitude--gentiles". ALL the people attested, "all the Lord GOD says, we will do".
Therefore, as you now admit, Gentiles "have always been allowed to be included into the Covenant(Old and New).
GOD never excluded any Believer. GOD'S Salvation is for ALL who desire to have GOD as their GOD and have/submit to GOD'S LOVE Laws as the rule of their lives.
It has been mankind--no matter their ethnic background-- who have, by their own will. estranged themselves from the Creator GOD,(As Isaiah was showing above).



SL, Who are HIS people? Above you acknowledge Gentiles "have always"---now you are reverting back to Jews vs. Gentiles.
When GOD called Abraham out from idol worshipers, there was NO JEW--- only people who had been scattered over the face of the earth because they failed in their obedience to GOD.(They setup gods of their own choosing.)
What's a gentile? Hebrew=gowy=nations; heathen; gentile
Gen.12:2, GOD said of Abraham, "I will make of thee a great nation(gowy)". Therefore, the context determines the word to be used,
Jacob's name was changed to Israel because the scriptures record that he found favor in the sight of GOD and man.(He prevailed/overcome) (no longer a "usurper").
So who are HIS people---The ones who overcome(Repented) the lusts of the world in obedience to the Creator GOD of all things.

Paul was in harmony with GOD'S Salvational plan and teachings---despite your nay-saying to the contrary.

You are making false assumptions about my beliefs. Gentiles have always allowed to be included into the covenants. This doesn't mean that it was made with them. It was made with the offspring of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Any distortion of this Biblical truth is replacement theology.

 

[Simplelogic]

BTW....Isaiah 65 is talking about lost Israelites who were scattered and living as gentiles.

Of course, any man who repents and obeys can be in covenant with YHVH. They would be grafted into Israel or Judah....whom the covenant was made with!

 

[sincerly]

You are making false assumptions about my beliefs. Gentiles have always allowed to be included into the covenants. This doesn't mean that it was made with them. It was made with the offspring of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Any distortion of this Biblical truth is replacement theology.

SL, you can't have it both ways, Those of the "Mixed multitude" were recipients of the Covenant by way of their "All that the Lord GOD says, we will do". and the receiving of the sprinkled blood of the covenant.
They were NOT `"off-spring of Abraham".
You acknowledged that "GOD is NOT a respecter of persons".
Rahab is further proof that the covenant was to be for all who desired GOD as their GOD.(Ruth was another example.) And GOD'S Laws applied to all in the camp equally.

It is your conclusions which are a distortion. The Scriptures are true.

 

[Simplelogic]

SL, you can't have it both ways, Those of the "Mixed multitude" were recipients of the Covenant by way of their "All that the Lord GOD says, we will do". and the receiving of the sprinkled blood of the covenant.
They were NOT `"off-spring of Abraham".
You acknowledged that "GOD is NOT a respecter of persons".
Rahab is further proof that the covenant was to be for all who desired GOD as their GOD.(Ruth was another example.) And GOD'S Laws applied to all in the camp equally.

It is your conclusions which are a distortion. The Scriptures are true.

This is tiring. Go read Jeremiah 31. It will tell you who the NC was made with. Gentiles may be grafted into that covenant by becoming an Israelite!

 

[sincerly]

This is tiring. Go read Jeremiah 31. It will tell you who the NC was made with. Gentiles may be grafted into that covenant by becoming an Israelite!

I have and Hebrews chapters 8-10---neither speaks of grafting.
Since Jesus (Matt.23:38) declared, "Behold, your house is left to you desolate"---Believers in the Creator GOD have had the Holy Spirit dwelling/residing in the hearts and Minds. And those Believers(Jews and Gentiles) were cleansed by the Blood of Jesus {Sacrifice}.

 

[Simplelogic]

I have and Hebrews chapters 8-10---neither speaks of grafting.
Since Jesus (Matt.23:38) declared, "Behold, your house is left to you desolate"---Believers in the Creator GOD have had the Holy Spirit dwelling/residing in the hearts and Minds. And those Believers(Jews and Gentiles) were cleansed by the Blood of Jesus {Sacrifice}.

Okie dokie

 

[Simplelogic]

Laws for gentile grafting in the millennial kingdom:

9Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel. Ezekiel 44: 9

 

[sincerly]

Laws for gentile grafting in the millennial kingdom:

9Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel. Ezekiel 44: 9

SL How do you get "millennial kingdom" out GOD'S assurance that they will be released from the 70 years of captivity.
Yes, the levitical system has still a way to go before the promised Messiah is/was scheduled to appear on the scene.
Daniel, who was in that captivity, prophesied the Jewish Nation had not learned what Nebuchadnezzar had learned---GOD is in Charge. And Daniel had prophesied that the rebellious attitude would end. Jesus spoke of that end(Matt.23:38), "Your house is left unto you desolate."

 

[Simplelogic]

SL How do you get "millennial kingdom" out GOD'S assurance that they will be released from the 70 years of captivity.
Yes, the levitical system has still a way to go before the promised Messiah is/was scheduled to appear on the scene.
Daniel, who was in that captivity, prophesied the Jewish Nation had not learned what Nebuchadnezzar had learned---GOD is in Charge. And Daniel had prophesied that the rebellious attitude would end. Jesus spoke of that end(Matt.23:38), "Your house is left unto you desolate."

Ezekiel is speaking of the future Temple and the Messiah living in Israel.

 

[sincerly]

Ezekiel is speaking of the future Temple and the Messiah living in Israel.

SL, Jesus , the Messiah will not have a future on this earth which Isaiah and Revelations(by Jesus to John) state will by destroyed and replaced with a New heaven and new earth.

It isn't "nation Israel", but, people--"Israel" who abide therein.(Rev.21:1-5)

 

[Simplelogic]

What "end" are you talking about. Yeshua pronounced destruction on Jerusalem, he also spoke about the restoration of Jerusalem as well. Read the whole verse:

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under herwings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Matt 23: 39

Yes, there has been desolation but in the same text in speaks of restoration.

 

[Simplelogic]

SL, Jesus , the Messiah will not have a future on this earth which Isaiah and Revelations(by Jesus to John) state will by destroyed and replaced with a New heaven and new earth.

It isn't "nation Israel", but, people--"Israel" who abide therein.(Rev.21:1-5)

Ummmmm….what?? There will be a thousand year Messianic reign of Yeshua on this earth. This is exactly what Revelation states. New heaven and earth will be after that.

 

[Simplelogic]

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty andfour thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin weresealed twelve thousand. Rev 7: 4-8

Looks like there not that "desolate" anymore.

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
SL, Jesus , the Messiah will not have a future on this earth which Isaiah and Revelations(by Jesus to John) state will by destroyed and replaced with a New heaven and new earth.

It isn't "nation Israel", but, people--"Israel" who abide therein.(Rev.21:1-5)

Ummmmm….what?? There will be a thousand year Messianic reign of Yeshua on this earth. This is exactly what Revelation states. New heaven and earth will be after that.

SL, Jesus said there would be two resurrections. John 5:28-29, "
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Rev.20:1-6, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years".

In Rev.2:1-3:22, Is Jesus encouragement to the Churches(Believers) in time from John to the "Behold, I come quickly". To each age, is the promise "To the "over comer"/"Israel"".

1Cor.15:42, 51-55, "So also is the resurrection of the dead It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:.....
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"

That is what happens to the Righteous at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Now look at the wicked.
2Thess.2:7-12, "
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

John:14:1-3, "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

The Place where Jesus is Now and to which HE will take the Redeemed is the Father's House. And that for a 1000 Years.
As initially seen, (1Cor.6:3, "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"
Those 1000 Years will be busy---not that one is Judging GOD, but that everyone is satisfied that GOD'S Judgments are JUST and Righteous. As are HIS LAWS OF LOVE.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Paul was a liar not a follower of Jesus and his message

 

[Simplelogic]

sincerly said: ↑
SL, Jesus , the Messiah will not have a future on this earth which Isaiah and Revelations(by Jesus to John) state will by destroyed and replaced with a New heaven and new earth.

It isn't "nation Israel", but, people--"Israel" who abide therein.(Rev.21:1-5)



SL, Jesus said there would be two resurrections. John 5:28-29, "
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Rev.20:1-6, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years".

In Rev.2:1-3:22, Is Jesus encouragement to the Churches(Believers) in time from John to the "Behold, I come quickly". To each age, is the promise "To the "over comer"/"Israel"".

1Cor.15:42, 51-55, "So also is the resurrection of the dead It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:.....
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"

That is what happens to the Righteous at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Now look at the wicked.
2Thess.2:7-12, "
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

John:14:1-3, "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

The Place where Jesus is Now and to which HE will take the Redeemed is the Father's House. And that for a 1000 Years.
As initially seen, (1Cor.6:3, "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"
Those 1000 Years will be busy---not that one is Judging GOD, but that everyone is satisfied that GOD'S Judgments are JUST and Righteous. As are HIS LAWS OF LOVE.

Paul has got you all turned upside down with this. Yeshua's physical kingdom is coming to earth very soon. Stand by.

 

[sincerly]

Paul has got you all turned upside down with this. Yeshua's physical kingdom is coming to earth very soon. Stand by.

Those Revelation scriptures were from Jesus to John.
This Physical earth will be destroyed at the end of the 1000 Years. But during the 1000 year period after Jesus takes the Redeemed to Heaven, the only Humans that will be on this earth will be the remains of the wicked.
I don't know your source of/for being "turned upside down", but it isn't the Scriptures.

 

[Simplelogic]

Those Revelation scriptures were from Jesus to John.
This Physical earth will be destroyed at the end of the 1000 Years. But during the 1000 year period after Jesus takes the Redeemed to Heaven, the only Humans that will be on this earth will be the remains of the wicked.
I don't know your source of/for being "turned upside down", but it isn't the Scriptures.

Where does Yeshua say he will take the "redeemed" to heaven during the millennial reign?

Is the Messiah wicked too? Cause he will be here.

 

[Faybull]

What?? Yeshua, James and the Torah state to NOT eat it…period. Of course you should ask if the meat was offered to idols! What on earth are you talking about? CLEAN ANIMALS OFFERED TO IDOLS ARE FORBIDDEN BY JESUS HIMSELF!

19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Rev 2:19-20

14But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. Rev 2: 14

None of this has anything to do with clean and unclean like you keep suggesting. This is an easy command of Jesus which was obviously being ignored in the regions of Asia minor. Hey, isn't that where all of Paul's converts were?? This is how simple this was:

If an animal was offered to an idol, it was FORBIDDEN.

If Jesus was a sacrifice...to what and to whom was he sacrificed to?