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Featured Jesus' Odd Request

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, May 17, 2018.

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  1. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    It seems to me from reading the accounts that the Jews had no case against Jesus for blasphemy because he never claimed to be God.

    Jesus in his defense before the Jews said...."I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?” 33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— 36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?" (John 10:32-36)

    He only ever said he was God's son. After his arrest, and Pilate's attempt o free him, the Jews showed how desperate they were to be rid of this man......

    Matthew 27:24-26...."Seeing that it did no good but, rather, an uproar was arising, Pilate took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying: “I am innocent of the blood of this man. You yourselves must see to it.” 25 At that all the people said in answer: “Let his blood come upon us and upon our children.” 26 Then he released Bar·abʹbas to them, but he had Jesus whipped and handed him over to be executed..."

    They cursed themselves and their children with his blood. :eek: I believe they got their wish.

    Luke 23:22-25..."The third time he said to them: “Why? What bad thing did this man do? I found in him nothing deserving of death; I will therefore punish him and release him.23 At this they became insistent, demanding with loud voices that he be executed, and their voices prevailed. 24 So Pilate made the decision that their demand be met. 25 He released the man whom they were demanding, who had been thrown into prison for sedition and murder, but he surrendered Jesus to their will."

    John 19:12; 15...."For this reason Pilate kept trying to find a way to release him, but the Jews shouted: “If you release this man, you are not a friend of Caesar. Everyone who makes himself a king speaks against Caesar.” ....Pilate said to them: “Shall I execute your king?” The chief priests answered: “We have no king but Caesar.” 16 Then he handed him over to them to be executed..."

    The Roman governor found no case against Jesus under Roman Law so he wanted to release Jesus. The Jews threatened to report him for sedition if he didn't agree to the execution. (speaking against Caesar carried the death penalty) So he publicly washed his hands of the whole affair, had Jesus flogged just to appease them, and handed him over for execution.

    The Jews had held an illegal trial (on the night of the Passover) and had furnished false witnesses in order to carry out their plans. Thus, when Jesus said "forgive them Father for they know not what they do" he was NOT talking about the Jewish leaders.....they conspired together to make sure that Jesus was going to die. So he was referring to the Roman soldiers who drove the nails and hoisted him up to die an agonizing death on that torture stake when he asked God to forgive them. Only after Jesus died and the earthquake that resulted at that moment, did the soldiers realize what they had done.
     
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  2. Desert Snake

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    God's son would have been considered blasphemous as well, as far as I know.

    So, your commentary seems wrong.
     
  3. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Read Jesus' words to the Jews who wanted to stone him.....

    "I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?” 33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— 36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?" (John 10:32-36)

    What did he say? He said that God called Jewish judges "gods" (referring to Psalm 82) without it being blasphemy, so claiming to be God's son was not blasphemy as angels are also called God's sons.

    I don't believe that the Bible's narrative is wrong at all. My 'commentary' was all supported by scripture.
     
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  4. Desert Snake

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    Son of God, is still God. Angels aren't human incarnations, and because you do not understand the differences meant in the English name & name/title, God, used in the Bible, you do not understand the Deity inference, when it is used. You think it is merely a title.

    The manner in which Jesus calls Himself God's son, is completely different from the other usages that you equate to it.
     
    #64 Desert Snake, May 20, 2018
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  5. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Was Jesus appealing to God to show mercy and not justice?
     
  6. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Luke 3:38, then, tells us Adam is God?
     
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  7. Desert Snake

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    It means from, not the same meaning as Jesus the Son of God.

    Genesis 1:26

    'Let us make man in our image'...
     
  8. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    God was simply talking to someone, as we all do.....we don’t talk ourselves that way — “Let us “, not “let me” — do you think God is schizophrenic?

    Why would Jesus say at John 14:1...”Exercise faith in God, exercise faith also in me.”?

    Why did Jesus not say “exercise faith in the Father and me”, including both together?

    You add interpretations to the texts that aren’t there.
     
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  9. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    What are you asking me?

    Jesus's statement is rhetorical--the Romans are crucifying a person without understanding He dies on the cross for their sin, too.
     
  10. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There is no deity reference with regard to Jesus Christ. He is a completey separate entity to his Father. He is divine....but not God. Read John 17:3.

    "For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are". (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

    Who did Paul say was the "one God" of Christians? Not the "Lord" Jesus Christ.

    You do realise that until it became doctrine in the Catholic Church over 300 years after Jesus died, that the trinity did not exist? Jews had no notion of a triune God, but it was common in pagan religions. The only other Abrahamic faith is Islam...and it has no trinity either.

    The manner in which God is addressed in the OT is most commonly by his personal name YHWH...Yahweh...Jehovah. This is God's only name...all other forms of address are titles.
     
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  11. Desert Snake

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    This is a hodge podge of mixed up ideas, that did not even address the subject of blasphemy.

    God has more than one name, as well, and your not understanding that will make the Bible contradictory, and sometimes even meaningless. If you want to rewrite the Bible using your peculiar theology, I'm really not interested.
     
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Who said I am the one rewriting the Bible using "my " theology? :shrug: I could suggest that you are doing the exact same thing. I used the Bible to back up everything I said...what have you done apart from telling me that I don't understand the Bible? It has been my passion for 45 years. I was raised with the church's theology and it was complete rubbish. The Bible interprets itself.

    God has one name that was to be his only name forever.

    Exodus 3:13-15 from the Tanach https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

    "And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"
    God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
    And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation."


    As you may know, the Jews did not utter the divine name but they retained it in its written form....יְהֹוָ֞ה (YHWH or Jehovah in English.)

    In the Hebrew, verse 15 says..."וַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי "

    That means that יְהֹוָ֞ה YHWH is God's name "forever"....how YHWH (Jehovah) should be "mentioned in every generation". Do you understand what this means?
     
    #72 Deeje, May 22, 2018
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  13. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    God's law is the ultimate law, and murder is against the law he laid down, in both covenants.
     
  14. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    Well I guess you will just have to disagree with God, because he said in his word, that it was for whosever will, and that it was his will for all to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Maybe they don't understand because they don't humbly ask him for understanding, with an honest and sincere heart. If any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God. I know it says because some received not the love of the truth, he allowed them to believe a lie, and be damned.
     
    #74 TrueBeliever37, May 22, 2018
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  15. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    Please provide your verse to verify where he clearly stated about, until the second coming.

    Before faith came, we were kept under the law. The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Messiah, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Galations 3:23-25

    Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? Galations 4:2 , Messiah has become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Galations 5:1-4

    But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Galations 5:18
     
  16. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Whosoever will, this all pertains to God's elect and the very elect of God.
    That if they seek wisdom let them ask God.

    You do know Christ Jesus foretold what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.
    And when it will happen.
    And who can commit it.
    In the book of Mark 13.
     
  17. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    What does blasphemy have to do with our present discussion?
     
  18. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Didn't you not say, you know the bible, so I ask you to explain in the book of Mark 13
    That Jesus gave what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.
    And when it will happen and who can commit it.
     
  19. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    NO it was you that claimed to have understanding of all the scriptures. I can find the post to prove it if I need to.

    If something is done by the power of God, and you say it was the power of the devil, you would have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. (To blaspheme is to speak evil of.) That is my understanding of it.
     
  20. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Well your understanding doesn't even come close to what Christ Jesus foretold what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.
    In the book of Mark 13
     
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