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Jesus' Odd Request

Skwim

Veteran Member
CONSIDER

Jesus was put on earth to save humanity, or as much of it as he could
John 6:35 & 38-40

35 Jesus said to them . . .38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Jesus knew this could only be accomplished by giving up his life; he predicted his death.
Matthew 20:17-19

17 Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, 18 “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”

Mark 10:32-34

32 They were on their way up to Jerusalem, with Jesus leading the way, and the disciples were astonished, while those who followed were afraid. Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him. 33 “We are going up to Jerusalem,” he said, “and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, 34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.”

However, at the moment of crucifixion Jesus says.
Luke 23:34
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do
So just what is it that those responsible for his crucifixion don't know that deserves forgiveness?

After all, they're doing exactly what Jesus and god had expected of them.

.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
CONSIDER

Jesus was put on earth to save humanity, or as much of it as he could
John 6:35 & 38-40

35 Jesus said to them . . .38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Jesus knew this could only be accomplished by giving up his life; he predicted his death.
Matthew 20:17-19

17 Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, 18 “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”

Mark 10:32-34

32 They were on their way up to Jerusalem, with Jesus leading the way, and the disciples were astonished, while those who followed were afraid. Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him. 33 “We are going up to Jerusalem,” he said, “and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, 34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.”

However, at the moment of crucifixion Jesus says.
Luke 23:34
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do
So just what is it that those responsible for his crucifixion don't know that deserves forgiveness?

After all, they're doing exactly what Jesus and god had expected of them.

.
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do

Who was Jesus asking his Father to forgive? The religious leaders, or the Roman soldiers?
(HINT: the answer is in bold type.)

Who didn’t know what they were doing? The religious leaders knew (John 3:1-2)...the soldiers didn’t.
 

Luke 23:34
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do
So just what is it that those responsible for his crucifixion don't know that deserves forgiveness?

After all, they're doing exactly what Jesus and god had expected of them.

.

It's not a question of whether or not those who were crucifying Jesus Christ (God the Son made man) deserve forgiveness. His prayer in Luke 23:34 is an example of His perfect love. It's also an example that His desires men should imitate towards his fellow man, or, as St. Augustine says, "Love your enemies in such a way that you would desire to make them your brothers."
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member

34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.”

However, at the moment of crucifixion Jesus says.
Luke 23:34
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do
So just what is it that those responsible for his crucifixion don't know that deserves forgiveness?

After all, they're doing exactly what Jesus and god had expected of them.

.

I'd imagine the mocking, spitting, flogging part.
 

qaz

Member
among jesus' requests the one i never understood is this:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished"

so why aren't christians circumcised? why don't they comply with the mitzvot?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
CONSIDER

Jesus was put on earth to save humanity, or as much of it as he could
John 6:35 & 38-40

35 Jesus said to them . . .38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Jesus knew this could only be accomplished by giving up his life; he predicted his death.
Matthew 20:17-19

17 Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, 18 “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”

Mark 10:32-34

32 They were on their way up to Jerusalem, with Jesus leading the way, and the disciples were astonished, while those who followed were afraid. Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him. 33 “We are going up to Jerusalem,” he said, “and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, 34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.”

However, at the moment of crucifixion Jesus says.
Luke 23:34
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do
So just what is it that those responsible for his crucifixion don't know that deserves forgiveness?

After all, they're doing exactly what Jesus and god had expected of them.

.

Well, yes. I am sure the Son thought that the Father, in all His aging and misfiring omniscience, might have mistakenly thought that they knew what they are doing. It is easy to be confused when you are so old and just reincarnated one/third of yourself into a smart 33 years old. He actually showed some signs of not really understanding what was going on, and it is the duty of every loving Son to help an aging father to think correctly. Just in case He had the finger on the trigger for those poor Romans crucifying Him.

Wait, as 1/3 of God, He should have known that asking that is ridiculously self defeating.

Ciao

- viole
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
CONSIDER

Jesus was put on earth to save humanity, or as much of it as he could
John 6:35 & 38-40

35 Jesus said to them . . .38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Jesus knew this could only be accomplished by giving up his life; he predicted his death.
Matthew 20:17-19

17 Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, 18 “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”

Mark 10:32-34

32 They were on their way up to Jerusalem, with Jesus leading the way, and the disciples were astonished, while those who followed were afraid. Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him. 33 “We are going up to Jerusalem,” he said, “and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, 34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.”

However, at the moment of crucifixion Jesus says.
Luke 23:34
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do
So just what is it that those responsible for his crucifixion don't know that deserves forgiveness?

After all, they're doing exactly what Jesus and god had expected of them.

.
From what i was told, the people dont know their own motivations, for if they did then they would be more culpable.
The people didnt know the deeper spiritual significance of their actions. Jesus was at the cross trying to earn their atonement for them, and the father was bearing judgment on mankind, while the son was bearing mercy on mankind. All this bearing that they did came to an ultimate head at the death and ressurection of Jesus. The death and ressurection of jesus was victory over death and sin for mankind. So the father was appeased by what the son did, they each took on an aspect of Gods justice, judgment and mercy. Jesus laying down his life of his own will as the father commanded needed to happen, to satisfy Gods judgment on the evils of mankind.
So jesus bore mankinds punishment and made a path to everlasting life. If jesus did not do what he did, mankind would have been destroyed. But they planned all this out when sin first came into being at Adam. Then they had to execute the plan.

So according to the trinity, God is three distinct persons, unified as one God of one truth. The mercy jesus won was a rescue attempt.

I was raised christian, and ive witnessed many bible studies, and they go in depth with the stories as literal accounts. I can testify that people literally believe what they believe in Christianity.
 

user4578

Member
How about for the possibility of even the slightest ignorance. For example, they thought his calling of 'Eli Eli lama sabachthani' meant he was calling Elijah, and so waited to see whether Elijah would come to take him.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do

Who was Jesus asking his Father to forgive? The religious leaders, or the Roman soldiers?
(HINT: the answer is in bold type.)

Who didn’t know what they were doing? The religious leaders knew (John 3:1-2)...the soldiers didn’t.
Please read carefully.

So just what is it that those responsible for his crucifixion don't know that deserves forgiveness?

My question wasn't who didn't know, but what they did, but aren't aware of, that deserves forgiveness.

After all, they're doing exactly what Jesus and god needed and expected all along.
.
 
Last edited:

Jumi

Well-Known Member
are you saying that "american christianity" prescribes the circumcision and the sabbath? that's clearly false.
Oh I didn't know what mitzvot was and you meant sabbath specifically with it.
 

qaz

Member
When you cause a misunderstanding by thinking everyone understands your language and laugh at them seems a good idea, perhaps look in the mirror?


I'm not Christian or Jewish. At your behavior, I'm glad we're not same.

you got me wrong. i wasn't laughing at you specifically, i just found this whole thing funny.
just for the record, i'm not jewish or christian either.
 
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