Gharib
I want Khilafah back
yeah that stuff is kind of like in islam, but different.
if you wanted to feel the warmth you could just have turned the heater on to hi!
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Jesus in the Qur'an and the Bible
- Thread starter Fatihah
- Start date
yeah that stuff is kind of like in islam, but different.
if you wanted to feel the warmth you could just have turned the heater on to hi!
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
what is Malaikah???
Gabriel is not the holy spirit, I promise!
He/She is A holy Spirit as are all angels....
but THE holy spirit, well that would be an Islamic tradition I would guess, by this I mean an Islamic view of christian ideas. Within Christianity, Gabriel is not the holy spirit!
I forget, yes of course Islam considers that it goes back to Adam. Mohammed was the last prophet, and Gabriel's was the final revelation or somethign like that.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
the english word for it is Angel.
well it is not a surprise that we have differnet views on this.
they are spirits made from light, does christianity say that?
ok so when the bible speaks about gabriel it mentions his name right, rather than saying the holy spirit and meaning gabriel?
the quran is the final revelation, not gabriel (as). but it was also gbriel's (as) final revelation to a prophet from god. (gods words being revealed to a prophet through gabriel)
gnostic
The Lost One
Not necessarily warmth, but the people praying would feel some sort of inexplicable emotion, such as comforted or relief (eg. feeling at peace), or what was confusing is now made clear (eg. experience of lucidity).eselam said:yeah that stuff is kind of like in islam, but different.
if you wanted to feel the warmth you could just have turned the heater on to hi!
Muffled
Jesus in me
Not to my knowledge other than Jesus saying that He is light and we become light through Him.
The angel Gabriel is always referred to by name as an angel. The Holy Spirit as used in the New Testament refers to the Paraclete which is God in us.
The Qu'ran is the last time God addresses a people through a messenger. Christians believe that God reveals Himself to them all of the time. However a large part of that revelation (like the Qu'ran) is a reminder of what has already been written.
It probably is the only time that happened. That doesn't mean that Gabiel doesn't have one last thing to do. It may very well be the voice of Gabriel that announces the Rapture.
AaronG
Member
The Christian Scriptures represent the true nature and character of Jesus. I think this is most clearly seen in His death on the cross. This is a fact of history. Christian belief in Jesus' character and nature - doctrine - is rooted in God's work in history.
There is a connection between what Christians believe and what God has done in the world. The Christian scholar J. Gresham Machen wrote,
The primitive Church was concerned not merely with what Jesus had said, but also, and primarily, with what Jesus had done. The world was to be redeemed through the proclamation of an event. And with the event went the meaning of the event; and the setting forth of the event with the meaning of the event was doctrine. These two elements are always combined in the Christian message. The narration of the facts is history; the narration of the facts with the meaning of the facts is doctrine. "Suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried"--that is history. "He loved me and gave Himself for me"--that is doctrine. Such was the Christianity of the primitive Church (Christianity and Liberalism, 29).
Here is another way of looking at it. Both the Qur'an and the Christian Scriptures speak of God's "greatness." Christians believe God is so great that He must condescend in order to create and communicate with us. Gods exaltedness is revealed in His condescension. Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758), a Christian preacher and theologian, wrote about how the Gospel of Jesus Christ:
leads us to love God as an infinitely condescending God. The gospel, above all things in the world, holds forth the exceeding condescension of God. No other manifestation that ever God made of himself exhibits such wonderful condescension as the Christian revelation does. The gospel teaches how God, who humbles himself to behold things that are in heaven and earth, stooped so low as to take an infinitely gracious notice of poor vile worms of the dust, and to concern himself for their salvation, and so as to send his only-begotten Son to die for them, that they might be forgiven, and elevated, and honoured, and brought into eternal fellowship with him, and to the perfect enjoyment of himself in heaven for ever (Charity and Its Fruits).
Allah Akbar â the Greatness of God Manifested in His Condescension
True Faith
Member
None of the Bibles Writers Believed That Jesus is God:
All of the writers of the Bible believed that God was not Jesus. The idea that Jesus is God did not become part of Christian belief until after the Bible was written, and took many centuries to become part of the faith of Christians.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17). They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person. Many others too, are similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9).
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...2018-bible-denies-jesus-god-bible-denies.html
All of the writers of the Bible believed that God was not Jesus. The idea that Jesus is God did not become part of Christian belief until after the Bible was written, and took many centuries to become part of the faith of Christians.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17). They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person. Many others too, are similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9).
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...2018-bible-denies-jesus-god-bible-denies.html
Muffled
Jesus in me
This is a bit speculative since none of the authors makes an "I believe statement" to that affect.
Even the church goes through times of searching just as individuals do. Sometimes it just doesn't get it as in the Doctrine of the Trinity. Christian belief is not very good evidence that something is true or false. The subject must be addressed on its own merits. (I have a string for that and there is another one on Biblical debates).
Matthew Mark Luke and John are not expressing their own opinions or beliefs but are relating the words of Jesus. Both of these verses (taken out of context) do not prove your point.
Gleaning the understanding of Jesus by the disciples is not easy but in all likelihood they did not understand the words of Jesus much better than you.
Nothing underscores this more than this verse:
Luke 8:25 And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And being afraid they marvelled, saying one to another, Who then is this, that he commandeth even the winds and the water, and they obey him?
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Simple question: Does Islamic scriptures recognize Jesus as speaker of truth?
Muffled
Jesus in me
The Qu'ran speaks of Jesus as a messenger of God.
Ah, but that was not the question. God has sent men who lied. My question is, does Muslim scripture present Jesus as speaking truth?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Yes, he is considered to be a bona fide "prophet" in Islam, second in line to Muhammad, of course.
Still not the question. I Kings 13 gives an account of an old prophet of God who came to a young prophet of God and lied to him.
My questions remains. does Islamic (or muslim) scripture present Jesus as speaking truth?
I would appreciate it more if a Muslim would respond. (No dispersion, I am trying to discover something here) If you are a Muslim it would help me if you would simply sate it as a fact, because of my ignorance, I cannot discern from titles.
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Twig pentagram
High Priest
Which scripture was actually written in Yeshuas' life time. Neither, so I have to come to the conclusion that no one knows the true nature of Yeshuas' character.
Your great-great-grandfather was not so designated in your lifetime. does that mean you did not have a great-great-grandfather?
I think I would listen to the eye-witness and ear-witness accounts of testimony from those who were there when he was.
So, any Muslim want to respond to the question? Does Islamic (or muslim) scripture present Jesus as speaking truth? i.e., Is Jesus considered a truth speaker when he speaks in Christian scripture? What is Islam's assessment of Jesus as the prophet speaking for God?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Let us be very clear. I am not a Muslim, nor would I ever consider "reverting" to Islam. If I can take a stab at your question again...
You see, Muslims will often speak praises about Jesus as a genuine prophet of god, however, they will also, at the drop of a hat, insist that Christian Scriptures have been "corrupted". Curiously, the parts that are corrupted are the parts that are at variance with the telling of Christian tales in the Qur'an. In this respect, the "truth teller" angle might find itself covered in the corrupted parts that were altered. I don't know, but it would be interesting for one of the more knowledgeable Muslims to speak up.
Let us be very clear. I am not a Muslim, nor would I ever consider "reverting" to Islam. If I can take a stab at your question again...
You see, Muslims will often speak praises about Jesus as a genuine prophet of god, however, they will also, at the drop of a hat, insist that Christian Scriptures have been "corrupted". Curiously, the parts that are corrupted are the parts that are at variance with the telling of Christian tales in the Qur'an. In this respect, the "truth teller" angle might find itself covered in the corrupted parts that were altered. I don't know, but it would be interesting for one of the more knowledgeable Muslims to speak up.
I appreciate your clearing up the fact you are not Muslim. I did not know, but I need Muslims to deal truthfully with me if we are to have any kind of real dialogue. they seem reluctant to respopnd to the real issue between Christians and Muslims; i.e., how to treat or consider each other's sacred writings.
Since I asked the question, I think it only fair Muslims respond. If they in return query me on the same issu, I will tell them honestly, AND I will tell them why.
How about it? Any Muslim?
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I don't suppose I could pitch in my two cents and say that the Bible and Quran are both right to a certain extent, and both wrong to a certain extent? At least in my understanding of Jesus
I don't suppose I could pitch in my two cents and say that the Bible and Quran are both right to a certain extent, and both wrong to a certain extent? At least in my understanding of Jesus
Well, give us the other penny.