-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Jesus in the Qur'an and the Bible
- Thread starter Fatihah
- Start date
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
My money would be on his followers, not on some upstart that arrived 600 years after the fact, but hey... that's just me. :flirt:
gnostic
The Lost One
fatihah said:
ymirGF said:
Well, Jesus' disciples, excluding Paul, of course, were contemporaries of Jesus. Just as Muhammad's closest disciples were contemporaries. Although, I don't believe in either religions, I think Jesus' contemporaries would know more than Muhammad.
Would you believe that the Baha'i Faith provide better or accurate view on Muhammad than the writings of the Hadiths, fatihah?
Muhammad Rasulullah
Member
By his followers who do you mean? Jesus never called himself christian nor did he tell anyone to call themselves christian's. So who is following Jesus. I would say that the muslim more than the christian is following the teachings of Jesus since the muslim view reprsents the true nature of jesus. Evidence is present in the bible but christians have anthropomorphised Jesus to be more than he is.
Which gives the true nature of Jesus?
I dunno.
But if I had to guess, I'd say that neither one has it just right. I believe Jesus to be a Sage, to be sure, but human like the rest of us, born of a mother and a father. He taught revolutionary things for the region, a number of which is recorded in the gospels, and possibly was executed for them.
I dunno.
But if I had to guess, I'd say that neither one has it just right. I believe Jesus to be a Sage, to be sure, but human like the rest of us, born of a mother and a father. He taught revolutionary things for the region, a number of which is recorded in the gospels, and possibly was executed for them.
Muhammad Rasulullah
Member
Which gives the true nature of Jesus?
I dunno.
But if I had to guess, I'd say that neither one has it just right. I believe Jesus to be a Sage, to be sure, but human like the rest of us, born of a mother and a father. He taught revolutionary things for the region, a number of which is recorded in the gospels, and possibly was executed for them.
Who was Jesus's father? he had no father.
Muhammad Rasulullah
Member
Well History says that there were people at the time who believed that Jesus was not the son of God nor God incarnate so are we counting those as being part of his followers or are we being selective by sticking with trinitarians. What we really should do I stick with scriptural evidence to show Jesus's true nature.
Muhammad Rasulullah
Member
If you are referring to matthew mark, luke and John the supposed writers of the NT then they were not the disciples of Jesus.
Joseph the Carpenter, if you go by Biblical names.
Otherwise we don't and can't know.
Muhammad Rasulullah
Member
Joseph was not the father of Jesus but the supposed father of Jesus. Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli,
No christian nor muslims believes that Jesus had a father.
Hence I said that I believed that neither one had it perfectly right.
I don't think the gospels are perfect in their account as to what happened.
Muhammad Rasulullah
Member
This is true. But the Quran is clear about the nature and characteristics of Jesus.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]5:117 (Y. Ali) "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]3:51 (Y. Ali) "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]5:75 (Y. Ali) Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! [/FONT]
I'm not Muslim, so I don't believe the Qur'an has it perfect, either.
Especially since that particular translation basically says that Christ wasn't Christ at all. Christ is the Greek word for Messiah, who, in Jewish prophecy, would bring all back to Paradise. I think this Messiah is supposed to be more that just an apostle, though the original prophecies did not say that the Messiah would be "the Son of God".
gnostic
The Lost One
Scriptures don't need to be written by deity to be considered holy. Nor do they need to be perfect.
To think that the Hebrew Scriptures (Tanakh) were written by a god, would be missing the point of the religion. They were without by men and from the point-of-view of men - in their relationship between the various characters, in their relationship with each other, and with their god.
The author, whether he be a prophet or not, may inform us what this god spoke or command, but it is still written from the author's view, hence human. That does not mean it does not have its values.
As to the accounts of Jesus as to be accurate or perfect, I don't think there is one, but what come closest is those written shortly after his time, and not what happen some 500 or more years later.
To think that the Hebrew Scriptures (Tanakh) were written by a god, would be missing the point of the religion. They were without by men and from the point-of-view of men - in their relationship between the various characters, in their relationship with each other, and with their god.
The author, whether he be a prophet or not, may inform us what this god spoke or command, but it is still written from the author's view, hence human. That does not mean it does not have its values.
As to the accounts of Jesus as to be accurate or perfect, I don't think there is one, but what come closest is those written shortly after his time, and not what happen some 500 or more years later.
Muhammad Rasulullah
Member
So by closest do you mean two to three hundred years later all four being signed as pen names, the gospel according to, according to, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.They couldn't have wrote them those are all signed third person. And they details they give of Jesus can't be true which display his character. Disrespecting his mother Mary, cursing a tree because it didn't bear fruit when it was out of season.
The muslim view matches what many christian's believed about Jesus at his time and after.
Jesus is a prophet of God sent to his people, the lost sheep of israel Matthew 15:24.
Jesus was not God nor the son of God.
My Father is greater than I John 14:28
John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. So was Jesus sent?
Yes.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
It is obvious who Jesus is. Or more so who he is not. Which matches what the quran says.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]43:59 (Y. Ali) He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]3:50 (Y. Ali) "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]5:46 (Y. Ali) And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary,We sent him the Gospel: confirming the Law that had come before him: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. [/FONT]
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
But why should we give the slightest care as to what Muslims think on the matter?
Muhammad Rasulullah
Member
How does this say That Jesus was not the Messiah?
Muhammad Rasulullah
Member
Well the thread is not whether you care or not. But you should if you are a christian because as I have already shown in post #16 that the nature of Jesus cannot be God because of what he says about himself and about the one who sent him God. And also that what he is quoted as saying in the bible matches what the muslims believe as well and what the quran says. If you don't believe in Jesus then I guess you wouldn't care and there needs to be a whole new thread for you in particular.
So who was the father of Jesus. I don't believe in immaculate conception and there has never been a child born on earth that didn't have a male and a female for their beginning.