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Featured Jesus and Deut 5:8-9

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I can't find the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) anywhere in connection to ' el '

    KJV translated the Tetragrammaton into English at Psalms 83:18 as Jehovah.
     
  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Yahweh

    in relation to Daniel ch 11 it talks about one who tries to set himself above el and which leads to his destruction.

    36 “The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god(el) and will say unheard-of things against the God(el) of gods(el).

    Tetragrammaton
     
  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find Daniel 11:32-43 is in connection to the both changing King of the North, and King of the South roles.
    In our time frame, the King of the North was the episode of the Communist bloc including the cold war era.
    Whereas the King of the South saw the world power come from England to America, an Anglo-American power.
    Seems as if Now the King of the North could Now be in connection to the 8th King of Revelation 17:11.
    Thus, none of those Kings are the God of the Bible.
    However, Jesus, as King of God's Kingdom government of Daniel 2:44, reigns over Earth for a thousand years before Jesus will hand back God's Kingdom to his God at the end of his millennium-long day of governing over Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
     
  4. Baroodi

    Baroodi Active Member

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    (And no a wrongdoer soul should bear the sins of another wrongdoer)

    Quran 6:163
    (Whoever chooses to follow the right path, do this for himself and whoever go stray, he do it against himself. And no bearer of sins should be carrying sins of other wrongdoer) 17:15
     
  5. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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  6. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Images, and Images that are Idolatry, are two very different things.

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  7. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    See # 13.

    By Dan 2 he has already accepted the Jewish God.

    Dan 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

    Three sentences later (Dan 3:1) he makes a Gold Image (perhaps the Jewish God he has just named God of Gods?) which is of course against the Jewish law. Thus the Three refuse to bow before it.

    Dan 3:12 There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

    A miracle happens - and this time he calls the Jewish God - The Most High God.

    Dan 3:26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.

    Dan 3:29
    Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.

    In 4:2 he appears to be explaining why he made a golden statue to the Jewish HIGH GOD,

    Dan 4:2 I thought it good to shew the signs and wonders that the high God (see 3:1) hath wrought toward me. (He appears to be explaining to the three why he built The gold statue of the Jewish God, - that they would not bow before.)

    Then - he has another dream, - which Daniel interprets and TELLS US the MEANING of! (Apparently Nebuchadnezzar knows the God of Gods, but doesn't understand that God puts kings on their thrones.)

    Dan 4:24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:

    Dan 4:25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

    Dan 4:26 And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.

    Dan 4:28 All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar.

    Dan 4:29 At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.

    And this is why --- as per 25 - till thou know HE GIVES IT. Twelve months later he says I and MY and while he is still speaking self aggrandizement, - the prophesy comes true.

    Dan 4:30 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?

    Dan 4:31 While the word was (still) in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.

    Dan 4:32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

    So the image has nothing to do with his being driven away.

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  8. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    love saves no matter who you are.
     
  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    melchizedek wasn't Jewish, neither was abraham, isaac, or israel.

    being jewish isn't a requirement. tmoses adopted the name of a canaanite god; which again was probably steeped in allegory. moses was also influenced by jethro who was the high priest and kind of midian. again midian was a son of keturah who also came from the east; which would be persia influence through zoroastrianism and hinduism.

    again to return the lost

    Bible Gateway passage: Hosea 14 - Contemporary English Version

    there is one law for all the native born and the foreign.
     
  10. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    What does any of that have to do with my post?

    You know perfectly well what is meant by Jewish there, and it doesn't matter if Hebrew or another name is used.

    Jew comes from Judah.

    yehûdâh Judah - yehûdâ'ı̂y Jews -

    As to Melchizedek -

    "Additionally, the name Melchizedek comes from two Hebrew words, ‘melech’ which means king, and ‘zedek’ which means righteousness. This means a king over a place known for its righteousness.
    Jerusalem is referred to as the city that reflects God’s righteousness as it is stated:
    “Jerusalem will dwell in security and this is what she (Jerusalem) will be called ‘God is our righteousness.’” Jeremiah 33:16
    Melchizedek, a generic title conferred of kings who rule over Jerusalem. In the same way, all kings of Egypt were called Pharaoh, Kings of Philistine were referred as Abimelech and Kings of Persia were given the title Achasverous.
    So too, kings with the name ‘zedek’ as part of their title were human kings of Jerusalem as in:
    “Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem” Joshua 10:l..." https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledg...olemics/texts/psalm-110-a-jewish-perspective/

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    #30 Ingledsva, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  11. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    there was more than 12 tribes of israel and one more that is implicitly known. they were the idiosyncratic group. it was the group that separated itself from the rest of israel. they were called nazarites. jesus was known as one who came from nazarene. they are mentioned in Numbers 6. these are the esoteric group. they come from all tribes and nations. they would later be associated with the prophets and mt. carmel. they were probably influenced originally my melchizedek.

    modern day scholars refer to them as the essene. they practiced communal living and they accepted non-jewish people as members. pythagoras was one of them.

    1 Samuel 9:9
    (Now it used to be in Israel that whenever someone went to inquire of God he would say, “Come on, let’s go to the seer.” For today’s prophet used to be called a seer.)
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    After telling us that the soul that sins dies, I find at Ezekiel 18:20 it says that the son will Not bear the sin of the father, Neither the father for the son.........
     
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, I agree, the images of Ezekiel 8 are in connection to idolatry, and Not for the sake of art.
     
  14. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Separating yourself in a holy way, from a tribe, - does not make you a new tribe. They were just a holy order.

    There is no proof the Nazarite Order became the Essene Order.

    "One who lives apart; one who has made a vow of abstinence; in the former sense used as early as Sifra, Emor, iv. 3; Sifre, Num. 23."

    "In Rabbinical Literature:
    The Nazarite law was minutely developed in post-Biblical times and became authoritative, while the popularity of Nazariteship and the influence it exercised on men's minds appear from its numerous regulations, which form a voluminous treatise of the Mishnah, and from the many expressions and phrases accompanying the taking of the vow. ..."

    NAZARITE - JewishEncyclopedia.com

    It also says they take a vow to YHVH, so only followers of YHVH.

    And by the way, - I am well aware of all the Pagan influences in the Hebrew religion. I've posted info on such many time. ;)

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  15. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Bit of a Red Herring there.

    YOU brought up Ezekiel, - in a discussion about them having images on normal everyday things. Thus not idolatry.

    The fact that they portrayed all kinds of images proves the law meant Idolatrous images, - and not no images at all. In fact we eventually have images of YHVH in his Solar Chariot surround by images of the zodiac.

    ancient jewish artifacts with - Yahoo Image Search Results

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    from the link you provided

    In ancient times the priests were persons dedicated to God (Ezek. xliv. 20; I Sam. i. 11), and it follows from the juxtaposition of prophets and Nazarites (Amos ii. 11-12) that the latter must have been regarded as in a sense priests.

    Jesus was referred to as a priest, rabbi, prophet.


    History of the Christian Religion to the Year Two Hundred


    The Essenes: Their History and Doctrines ; And, The Kabbalah : Its Doctrines ...
     
    #36 Fool, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  17. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    By what I know, Jesus didn’t make any idols.
     
  18. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    not even of himself?
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    The verse I wanted to bring attention to is found at Ezekiel 8:16 B because their worship of the ' sun ' was a basis for the adverse judgement as found at Ezekiel 8:6-9 about the people who were Not sighing or crying over the bad things brought into the Temple. They were Not sighing or crying over those bad religious conditions.
    Please note Ezekiel 8:5 B because at the 'gate of the altar' they placed an 'image of jealousy', and Not of genuine worship. At Ezekiel 8:9-10 Ezekiel sees the things of wicked abominations, and Not of proper worship.
     
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  20. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    And again, - an out of context reply.

    In the post YOU responded to, I was proving that the text must mean ONLY images with an Idolatrous meaning, - for - AS SHOWN - they put images on everyday items.

    As to SUN worship - YHVH is a Sun God - which is why me have mosaic Temple floors with Him as the SUN in his Solar Chariot, surrounded by the zodiac.

    Psalms 84:11 For a Sun and Shield is YHVH Elohiym; beauty and splendor gives he YHVH, and does not withhold prosperity from those who walk in integrity.

    Psalm 68: 32, 33, 34 –

    Sing unto God, ye kingdoms of the earth;
    O sing praises unto the Lord; Selah:
    To HIM that “RIDETH UPON THE HEAVENS,” which were of old;
    lo, he doth send out “His Crackling Thunder Voice;”
    and that a “mighty thunder. “
    Ascribe ye strength unto God:
    His excellency is “OVER” Israel,
    and His Strength is in the Clouds.

    Mal. 4:2 - But unto you who fear my name shall the "SUN" of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings;

    Wings is 3671 kanaph - edge, extremity, pinnacle, to project down, corner (corner of altar-horn-ray) In other words the SUN's healing RAYS, not wings!

    Unger's Bible Encyclopedia has an article on this Hebrew sun worship. Etc.

    "Several lines of evidence, both archaeological and biblical, bear witness to a close relationship between Yahweh and the sun. The nature of that association is such that often a 'solar' character was presumed for Yahweh. Indeed, at many points the sun actually represented Yahweh as a kind of 'icon.' Thus, in at least the vast majority of cases, biblical passages which refer to sun worship in Israel do not refer to a foreign phenomenon borrowed by idolatrous Israelites, but to a Yahwistic phenomenon which Deuteronomistic theology came to look upon as idolatrous.... an association between Yahweh and the sun was not limited to one or two obscure contexts, but was remarkably well integrated into the religion of ancient Israel." - Taylor, Glen, Yahweh and the Sun: Biblical and Archaeological Evidence for Sun Worship in Ancient Israel

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