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Jesus and Deut 5:8-9
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
No.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Jesus isn't God, - nor did he ever say he was.
He taught Tanakh, - ONE God, - and claimed he was the awaited Jewish Messiah, - whom was to be a special HUMAN from the line of King David.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
None of which proves a Jesus jump to Essene.
That "history" has a bunch of junk in it. He talks about Zealots and the Sicarri and says these were Essene. He says the Zealots were called Sicarri after 54 AD. and they are the Essenes.
In reality the Iskariōtēs" and Zelotes were Guerilla fighters, fighting for Jewish freedom from the Romans.
The Bible says one of Jesus' apostles was called Iscariot, and another Zelotes, obviously before 54 AD.
And again - Guerrilla fighters not a religious group "Essene." Guerrilla fighters did not become the Essenes.
Judas Iscariot and Simon called Zelotes,
Luk 6:15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
Luk 6:16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
Joh 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Zēlōtēs
The same as G2207; a Zealot, that is, (specifically) partisan for Jewish political independence: - Zelotes.
"Zealot" the name given to members of the extreme nationalist party founded about A.D. by Judas of Gamala"
"Iscariot" "Iskariōtēs" identifies Judas as a member of the Sicarii These were Jewish rebels intent on driving the Romans out of Judea.
We know of the Sicarii from later historians that wrote about them.
It is very interesting that both father and son have identifiers which are Guerrilla - Freedom Fighter groups.
Interesting that they are part of Jesus' circle, and pack short fighting swords (machaira), while Jesus is stirring up the crowds, and eventually gets killed for his actions.
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Zealots Also Essenes.
"For some of these observe a still more rigid practise in not handling or looking at a coin which has an image, nor will they even enter a city at the gates of which statues are erected [comp. Yer. 'Ab. Zarah iii. 42b, 43b]. Others again threaten to slay any Gentile taking part in a discourse about God and His Law if he refuses to be circumcised [comp. Sanh. 59a, Ex.R. xxxiii.]. From this they were called 'Zealots' [Ḳanna'im] by some, 'Sicarii' by others. Others again will call no one lord except God, even though they be tortured or killed.
I agree with you ^ above ^ because of Jesus' own words at John 10:36 where Jesus says he is God's Son.
Even gospel writer John wrote at Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.
So, only God was before the beginning as per Psalms 90:2, so Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning - Colossians 1:15.
The Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe Jesus was human. They believe he was a reincarnated angel.
Their?
I find at 1 Thessalonians 4:16 that the 'Lord' mentioned there is Lord Jesus, and according to that verse Lord Jesus has the voice of the Archangel. Jesus in Scripture is also: Son of man (human but sinless).
When his God resurrected the dead Jesus he was resurrected back to his pre-human spirit body.
What I meant was when you say, "their" you exclude yourself. Are you not one of them?
It doesn't say he "has the voice of an archangel." En is more often translated in.
16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s+ voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.+
Ephesians 3:19
and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Colossians 2:10
And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj
1510 [e] este ἐστὲ you are V-PIA-2P
1722 [e] en ἐν in Prep
846 [e] autō αὐτῷ him PPro-DM3S
4137 [e] peplērōmenoi πεπληρωμένοι, complete,
John 14:20
On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.
Christ is IN the call. In the trumpet. In the voice.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
I'm just curious as to how you come by
( Punishing ) in Deut 5:9?
When it's Written ( Visiting )
How do you come by to visit someone to come to be punishing them ?
It just means that God saw, seen, their
father's iniquity to be seen upon their children up to the third and fourth generation. Which has nothing to do with punishing.
comes from paqad and strong's concordance
the next word is 'avon; which has negative conotations.
to visit is neither friendly or hostile but the proceeding word is considered a negative.
DennisTate
Active Member
I believe that your question is answered here......
John 2:14
And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise."
and here......
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Not sure what you are trying to say here?
Carefully reread my post.
Also note I used the Christian translation of Zealot.
Zēlōtēs
The same as G2207; a Zealot, that is, (specifically) partisan for Jewish political independence: - Zelotes.
Your link had misinformation.
For instance it says the 54AD.
That "history" has a bunch of junk in it. He talks about Zealots and the Sicarri and says these were Essene. He says the Zealots were called Sicarri after 54 AD. and they are the Essenes.
In reality the Iskariōtēs" and Zelotes were different Guerrilla fighters, fighting for Jewish freedom from the Romans.
The Bible says one of Jesus' apostles was an Iscariot, and another a Zelotes, obviously before 54 AD.
And again - Guerrilla fighters not a religious group "Essene." Guerrilla fighters did not become the Essenes.
Obviously they are different groups that we can read about.
Even just using the Bible - we can see they are separate, as Jesus has a named Zelote, and Sicarri, at the same time, - and obviously before 54AD as Jesus is alive.
One group did not go through three name changes.
Why would Guerrilla fighters/warriors become celibate desert monks? They wouldn't.
"A third faction, the Essenes, emerged out of disgust with the other two. This sect believed the others had corrupted the city and the Temple. They moved out of Jerusalem and lived a monastic life in the desert, adopting strict dietary laws and a commitment to celibacy." Pharisees, Sadducees & Essenes
"Essene, member of a religious sect or brotherhood that flourished in Palestine from about the 2nd century bc to the end of the 1st century ad. Essene | ancient Jewish sect
Note the dates. We therefore have all three listed separately during the same time period, including while Jesus was alive, and obviously well before 54 AD.
Wiki has an interesting page on the Essenes. Essenes - Wikipedia
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
I don't think Deu 5:7-8 is saying not to make any images of anything, - but only to not make anything into an idol (of false worship.)
Deu 5:7 Thou shall have no strange gods before/over/beside me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shall not make for thyself an idol out of any manifestation/creation that is in the heavens above, or the land beneath, or the waters below the land.
Museums have many Jewish objects with images of animals, trees, flowers, etc. Also, Tanakh says the Temple had images of things.
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Deu 5:7 Thou shall have no strange gods before/over/beside me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shall not make for thyself an idol out of any manifestation/creation that is in the heavens above, or the land beneath, or the waters below the land.
Museums have many Jewish objects with images of animals, trees, flowers, etc. Also, Tanakh says the Temple had images of things.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naassene_Fragmenthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naassene_Fragment
jesus came from the ultra-orthodox pharisees and promoted communal holdings like the essenes did.