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ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This is a very clear example of cherry picking what you wish to believe and what is actually written. Nowhere does the Bible condemn homosexual lifestyles as much as you would like it to. Furthermore, nowhere does it condemn lesbian relationships. Slavery was advocated in the Bible yet you point to the slavery of today as being heinous. How can you pick what you wish to believe and disregard the rest?
I think the verses I quoted are in your Bible as well as mine. Romans 1:26 directly says; "That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature." Why contrary to nature? Such homosexual acts are not in keeping with God's purpose for sex. Lesbianism and male homosexuality are both condemned in the Bible. Nor does the Bible "advocate" slavery. I am not picking what I choose, simply stating what the Scriptures say.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The ones about shellfish, pork, owning slaves, having multipe concubines and so on. Its always interesting how you people forget those and adhere like a dog with a bone to the aforementioned one that is the topic of this thread
The laws regarding abstaining from certain foods was part of the Law of Moses, and applied specifically to one nation, Israel, as did the laws regulating slavery and having more than one wife. Christians are not under that Law today, but can benefit greatly from learning about it, since it was given by God and reflects his thinking, IMO. We certainly do not forget these laws, as you suggest.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
It is from birth. We even know why.
That article... oh boy. It hasn't been shown that epi-marks cause homosexuality. It has been modeled, under the assumption that homosexuality is biologically controlled, that epi-marks could be the cause of homosexuality, if the model is accurate. The model hasn't been tested yet.

So now that we know it is not an option to simply "not be gay" what are we to do?
That has been known for quite a while, it isn't something new.

Thoughts for or against?
Religiously, I don't really care much on marriage. Metaphysically, marriage is only between men and women; homosexuals will never really be married no matter how much they pretend at it.

Secularly, I see marriage as a state sanctioning, approving, and incentivizing the nuclear family unit. The unit that has been shown to produce future generations and provides for social stability, so the state has an interest in it. Homosexual relationships can't do that, so I don't in general oppose such bans. It hasn't to do with dignity, but whether the state has an interest in the relationship. Now, while I was thinking about this, if a homosexual couple had adopted, especially given the nature of our foster and orphanage situation, I would approve of a state marriage, for the nuclear family is being imitated.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Do you acknowledge that the Bible specifically endorses slavery and lays out, at lengths and in detail, the extent to which one human being, their spouse and their children can be considered another person's property?
I acknowledge the Law of Moses allowed, not endorsed, slavery, yet regulated it to prevent abuses. No Israelite needed to be a slave perpetually, and was to be freed within seven years (Exodus 21:2) The rights of slaves were protected when these laws were enforced. (Leviticus 25:39,40) So, IMO, the slavery permitted among God's people was far different than what most people think of when slavery is mentioned.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If god is so concerned about slavery, why did he permit it in the first place? Why are there laws that permit slavery? If he was going to end it, why was one of the 10 commandments not "Thou shalt not own slaves?"
Also, I am not a slave of god. Once I was, but the shackles and chains were cast off, and after I walked away I haven't looked back.
As I mentioned elsewhere, this is off topic and needs to be discussed in another thread.
 

chevron1

Active Member
I am. But what I don't like is someone telling me I'm somehow diseased or some other word...pick the one that suits you, telling me how to live my life. You tell me to 'choose' the opposite sex. how is that any of your business who I fall in love with? Shall I then dictate whom you may love?

are you diseased? i did not say that, so it is your idea. i don't tell you how to live either. i only tell you what others intend for you. if you aren't interested, they will give it to you anyway, because that is the way of the gospels. we must spread the "good news" according to jesus.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
First, I tried for at least 15 years to pray the gay away. I'm not one to do anything half-assed either, so I war full force in my faith and trust in the deity I was brought up to believe existed.

Didn't happen. I left the church because the misogyny and the homophobia was too much for me to handle. I embraced my bisexuality as natural, found peace and happiness, and 20 years after leaving the church, I'd rather stick my hand in a blender than go back. I'm a much much happier woman not being enmeshed in dehumanization.

It's already around me culturally, though, with the culture still sexist and homophobic. It's changing, though it's slow. We have ways to go.

Second, all this "purpose of sex" talk is what has caused great harm to humans around the world. Resulting in spousal rape, sexual assault, genital mutilation, child brides, and second class citizenship for women and girls around the world. People may see an institution as more valuable than the lives and safety of women and girls around the world, but I see the reverse as having more importance.

And this is all with the assumption of everybody being naturally heterosexual on the planet. That's false, and then building on that idea that same sex marriage is a perversion of what a followers of a deity claim to have intended shows how fragile the argument is when we see and witness countless non-heterosexuals engage in meaningful, loving, respectful, monogamous, long term relationships as much as heterosexuals.

I believe the One who knows best what is good for us is the One who created us, Jehovah God. More than praying to the true God is necessary. The Bible teaches that we are alienated from God and need to completely transform our thinking to accord with his will. This requires, I believe, that we come to know the true God, learning all we can about him.(Ephesians 2:1-5) Based on accurate knowledge, and with God's help, we can change our thinking completely (Romans 12:2) Many have done this very thing. Most people aren't willing to do this.(John 3:19) I believe having God's view of sex does no harm to anyone. It is ignoring his view that leads to the evils you describe.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Yes, it does say that. And verse 21 is talking about sacrificing children to the false god Molech:
"You must not allow any of your offspring to be offered to Moʹlech. You must not profane the name of your God in that way. I am Jehovah."

Baloney - it is the verse right before the one you brought up - and it is talking about Sacred Sex to Mo'lech, - as are the verses fallowing the one brought up, - showing that these several verses condemn Sacred Sex practices to Mo'lech.

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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The laws regarding abstaining from certain foods was part of the Law of Moses, and applied specifically to one nation, Israel, as did the laws regulating slavery and having more than one wife. Christians are not under that Law today, but can benefit greatly from learning about it, since it was given by God and reflects his thinking, IMO. We certainly do not forget these laws, as you suggest.
Then why is men shaving their face so popular and a massive portion of our clothes made with mixed threads?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I quoted the Greek text. It says what it says.

NO - you showed the Greek text beside an incorrect translation.

And you claim the inaccurate translation is correct.

Which is why I told you to go directly to the Greek.

Where you will find out YOU, and the translation, are wrong.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I think the verses I quoted are in your Bible as well as mine. Romans 1:26 directly says; "That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature." Why contrary to nature? Such homosexual acts are not in keeping with God's purpose for sex. Lesbianism and male homosexuality are both condemned in the Bible. Nor does the Bible "advocate" slavery. I am not picking what I choose, simply stating what the Scriptures say.

It has already been shown to you that this verse itself - TELLS US THIS IS SACRED SEX WORSHIP!

"women changed their natural use" - NO KIDDING - instead of becoming broad mares owned by men, - they became Sacred Prostitutes.

Deu 23:17 There shall be no Qadeshah (Sacred Prostitutes) of the daughters of Israel, nor any Qadesh (Sacred Prostitutes) of the sons of Israel.

EDIT - Forgot the slavery crap. BULL! We have provided verses from the LAW saying they could own slaves forever, breed them to make more slaves, and even rape war prisoners making them sex slaves, which is also what all those concubines are!

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I believe the One who knows best what is good for us is the One who created us, Jehovah God. More than praying to the true God is necessary. The Bible teaches that we are alienated from God and need to completely transform our thinking to accord with his will. This requires, I believe, that we come to know the true God, learning all we can about him.(Ephesians 2:1-5) Based on accurate knowledge, and with God's help, we can change our thinking completely (Romans 12:2) Many have done this very thing. Most people aren't willing to do this.(John 3:19) I believe having God's view of sex does no harm to anyone. It is ignoring his view that leads to the evils you describe.

Baloney, you can NOT pray your orientation away! Have you learned nothing in those discussions talking about the BRAIN and sexual orientation???

Can you pray your heterosexuality away? Will God reach down and alter your brain mass?

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I acknowledge the Law of Moses allowed, not endorsed, slavery, yet regulated it to prevent abuses. No Israelite needed to be a slave perpetually, and was to be freed within seven years (Exodus 21:2) The rights of slaves were protected when these laws were enforced. (Leviticus 25:39,40) So, IMO, the slavery permitted among God's people was far different than what most people think of when slavery is mentioned.

That is so much bull! Allowed - not endorsed - LOL!

They wrote it in as a LAW - that is endorsing!

As has been shown OVER and OVER to you folks - ONLY Hebrew bondsmen could not be held forever, or mistreated!

SLAVES from ALL other nations could be held FOREVER, bred like dogs to make more slaves, obviously raped, and could be beaten almost to death. The text says as long as they survive the abuse a day or two. Apparently then they can die from their wounds.

Stop trying to alter what the texts actually say!

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Marisa

Well-Known Member
The laws regarding abstaining from certain foods was part of the Law of Moses, and applied specifically to one nation, Israel, as did the laws regulating slavery and having more than one wife. Christians are not under that Law today, but can benefit greatly from learning about it, since it was given by God and reflects his thinking, IMO. We certainly do not forget these laws, as you suggest.
Be careful you don't toss out so much of the OT that you no longer need Jesus. ;)
 

Marisa

Well-Known Member
That article... oh boy. It hasn't been shown that epi-marks cause homosexuality. It has been modeled, under the assumption that homosexuality is biologically controlled, that epi-marks could be the cause of homosexuality, if the model is accurate. The model hasn't been tested yet.


That has been known for quite a while, it isn't something new.


Religiously, I don't really care much on marriage. Metaphysically, marriage is only between men and women; homosexuals will never really be married no matter how much they pretend at it.

Secularly, I see marriage as a state sanctioning, approving, and incentivizing the nuclear family unit. The unit that has been shown to produce future generations and provides for social stability, so the state has an interest in it. Homosexual relationships can't do that, so I don't in general oppose such bans. It hasn't to do with dignity, but whether the state has an interest in the relationship. Now, while I was thinking about this, if a homosexual couple had adopted, especially given the nature of our foster and orphanage situation, I would approve of a state marriage, for the nuclear family is being imitated.
Sexual orientation does not affect fertility. The state's interest marriage is about property, not babies.
 

Marisa

Well-Known Member
I acknowledge the Law of Moses allowed, not endorsed, slavery, yet regulated it to prevent abuses. No Israelite needed to be a slave perpetually, and was to be freed within seven years (Exodus 21:2) The rights of slaves were protected when these laws were enforced. (Leviticus 25:39,40) So, IMO, the slavery permitted among God's people was far different than what most people think of when slavery is mentioned.
Can I own you? Just for 7 years. I promise to let you go then, and in the interim only to beat you nearly to death and not fully to death.
 

Marisa

Well-Known Member
I believe the One who knows best what is good for us is the One who created us, Jehovah God. More than praying to the true God is necessary. The Bible teaches that we are alienated from God and need to completely transform our thinking to accord with his will. This requires, I believe, that we come to know the true God, learning all we can about him.(Ephesians 2:1-5) Based on accurate knowledge, and with God's help, we can change our thinking completely (Romans 12:2) Many have done this very thing. Most people aren't willing to do this.(John 3:19) I believe having God's view of sex does no harm to anyone. It is ignoring his view that leads to the evils you describe.
I've learned enough to know I want nothing to do with him.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
The laws regarding abstaining from certain foods was part of the Law of Moses, and applied specifically to one nation, Israel, as did the laws regulating slavery and having more than one wife. Christians are not under that Law today, but can benefit greatly from learning about it, since it was given by God and reflects his thinking, IMO. We certainly do not forget these laws, as you suggest.
The same argument is applicable to the one verse you all taut out and scream from the rooftops is why the world is coming to an end. IE; cherry picking.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
I think the verses I quoted are in your Bible as well as mine. Romans 1:26 directly says; "That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature." Why contrary to nature? Such homosexual acts are not in keeping with God's purpose for sex. Lesbianism and male homosexuality are both condemned in the Bible. Nor does the Bible "advocate" slavery. I am not picking what I choose, simply stating what the Scriptures say.
Ok. Now tell me, what exactly did 'changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature' mean to men 2000 years ago? It doesn't specifically say lesbianism. You infer homosexuality. Which I see quite often with your kind. And for the record, Paul wrote that. I don't believe a word from that alleged author, presuming he actually wrote it, as 1. His misogynist attitude throughout is painfully clear. I would say he hated women. 2. He never knew Jesus. 3. The things he wrote were so far removed from what Jesus taught as to be a totally separate religion. So frankly, his words don't mean a thing. And yet, you're still cherry picking. Or did you forget what Christ taught? You all draw on Paul so much he might as well be the one you consider divine.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
are you diseased? i did not say that, so it is your idea. i don't tell you how to live either. i only tell you what others intend for you. if you aren't interested, they will give it to you anyway, because that is the way of the gospels. we must spread the "good news" according to jesus.
Intend for me? INTEND for me.????. Who are you to make choices for me? Keep your good bloody news. I, for one, don't want it.
 
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