ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY

[Monk Of Reason]

The issue of homosexuality isn't that it should be stamped out or it should be inhibited.

The fact of the matter is that homosexuals exist. It is from birth. We even know why.
Scientists May Have Finally Unlocked Puzzle of Why People Are Gay - US News

So now that we know it is not an option to simply "not be gay" what are we to do? There have been arguments sent around that homosexuality is innately harmful. There has never been a successful argument to provide this. Homophobia in the form of personal or public pressures have been linked in causes of sexual misconduct and dangerous sexual practices.
There has been proven methods to reduce the harm and potentially make it no more harmful than heterosexual sex. (in fact female to female intercourse is already far safer than male to female intercourse has ever been) This method is through public acceptance of these sexual orientations and proper educations on safe sex for all orientations.

If the goal is to reduce "harm" caused by the homosexual community it only makes sense to give them the tools they need both sociologically and educationally to be successful and safe.

And onto marriage itself it is simply a matter of dignity. No one is arguing in favor of "just because" or "it feels good". It is a matter of human dignity and dignity is something we have proven over and over to be important. The dignity of women, religious minorities and ethnic minorities have all been fought for. Now we are slowly getting to the point where sexual orientation is obtaining the same dignity across the board.

Thoughts for or against?

 

[rusra02]

I think what counts is God's view of homosexual conduct, not the shifting theories of men. Since God created us, he knows best what is for our good or harm. And the Bible is consistent in it's view of homosexuality, be it male or female. The Bible frankly states that homosexual conduct is " uncleanness", "contrary to nature", "obscene", "error", "indecency", etc. (Romans 1:24-27) the Bible speaks about some who practiced such things, but left them behind upon learning God's requirements. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
As to marriage, God made this arrangement for a man and his wife, male and female. (Matthew 19:5,6) Any other pairing is outside the boundary God has set for marriage and contrary to God's purpose for marriage. Whatever men choose to do regarding same-sex "marriage", such unnatural unions have no acceptance with the true God, IMO.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I think what counts is God's view of homosexual conduct, not the shifting theories of men. Since God created us, he knows best what is for our good or harm. And the Bible is consistent in it's view of homosexuality, be it male or female. The Bible frankly states that homosexual conduct is " uncleanness", "contrary to nature", "obscene", "error", "indecency", etc. (Romans 1:24-27) the Bible speaks about some who practiced such things, but left them behind upon learning God's requirements. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
As to marriage, God made this arrangement for a man and his wife, male and female. (Matthew 19:5,6) Any other pairing is outside the boundary God has set for marriage and contrary to God's purpose for marriage. Whatever men choose to do regarding same-sex "marriage", such unnatural unions have no acceptance with the true God, IMO.

The issue is "which god". Is there a god? Which god is the real god? If there is a real god how do we actually know what he says?

If you wish for your religion to be held above all other religions then it needs to take up the test and provide incredibly solid evidence that it is correct. Faith alone does not give one the right to force their opinions on others. You may be against homosexuality within your own opinion. I actually have no problem with that. I might not be able to be friends with someone who is like that but so long as they keep it to themselves in terms of trying to block someone else's rights I won't fault them.

 

[rusra02]

The issue is "which god". Is there a god? Which god is the real god? If there is a real god how do we actually know what he says?

If you wish for your religion to be held above all other religions then it needs to take up the test and provide incredibly solid evidence that it is correct. Faith alone does not give one the right to force their opinions on others. You may be against homosexuality within your own opinion. I actually have no problem with that. I might not be able to be friends with someone who is like that but so long as they keep it to themselves in terms of trying to block someone else's rights I won't fault them.

I think the questions you raise are good questions. I agree that the true religion should be able to provide evidence that it is the truth. I believe true Christianity is the true religion; (those who truly follow the Christ instead of only claiming to be "Christian".) I take no political stand on issues of homosexuality or same-sex marriage. What I posted was not my opinion. It is what the Bible says. What matters is God's view, not man's.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I think the questions you raise are good questions. I agree that the true religion should be able to provide evidence that it is the truth. I believe true Christianity is the true religion; (those who truly follow the Christ instead of only claiming to be "Christian".) I take no political stand on issues of homosexuality or same-sex marriage. What I posted was not my opinion. It is what the Bible says. What matters is God's view, not man's.

In your case I obviously don't agree with either your position on god or your position on homosexuality. However I can respect your right to your opinion so long as that is what it is. If the anti-marriage equality groups all were like you I don't think we would be having many of the issues we do today.

 

[Kirran]

I think what counts is God's view of homosexual conduct, not the shifting theories of men. Since God created us, he knows best what is for our good or harm. And the Bible is consistent in it's view of homosexuality, be it male or female. The Bible frankly states that homosexual conduct is " uncleanness", "contrary to nature", "obscene", "error", "indecency", etc. (Romans 1:24-27) the Bible speaks about some who practiced such things, but left them behind upon learning God's requirements. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
As to marriage, God made this arrangement for a man and his wife, male and female. (Matthew 19:5,6) Any other pairing is outside the boundary God has set for marriage and contrary to God's purpose for marriage. Whatever men choose to do regarding same-sex "marriage", such unnatural unions have no acceptance with the true God, IMO.

Personally, I have seen many arguments made by Christians saying the Bible doesn't address homosexuality, or otherwise finding that homophobia isn't compatible with their faith. They make sense to me - our current ideas about sexual orientation didn't exist in biblical times.

But let's say God is against homosexuality, or related activities. Why did God create homosexual urges? In 1500 species to date?

 

[jeager106]

What about homosexuals that have zero contact with Christianity or it's Bible?
Are they too sinners when in their culture homosexuality is quite the norm?

 

[raph]

If God were against homosexuality He woul have created it as a test. Most people have sinful urges, this is not exclusive for homosexuals. Some people enjoy murder, this urge is a test fur them.

But I think that since gays arent harming anyone, the religious leaders should respect their life decisions. The catholic church is wrong for wanting to ban gay marriage. They may ban it within their faith, but if someone doesnt want to be part of it, he should be free to do what he wants except harming others. On the other hand, religious people should be allowed to tell everyone, what their God says about stuff like homosexual acts.

 

[rusra02]

Personally, I have seen many arguments made by Christians saying the Bible doesn't address homosexuality, or otherwise finding that homophobia isn't compatible with their faith. They make sense to me - our current ideas about sexual orientation didn't exist in biblical times.

But let's say God is against homosexuality, or related activities. Why did God create homosexual urges? In 1500 species to date?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

When you really think about it, it just makes sense that an infinite, all-powerful super-being, who created this unimaginably complex and enormous universe, would care about the social and sexual behaviors of one, specific, primitive species who have briefly inhabited one infinitesimally small dust-mote of a planet.

 

[Nakosis]

Thoughts for or against?

So we are getting closer to a cure...

If you can look at an embryo and determine it's sexual preference and find out it will homosexual, what do you do? Pick a different embryo to allow to be born?

Would it be immoral to do so?

 

[Kirran]

I don't just object to black people having less rights than white people by law. I object to people teaching that blacks are inferior to whites, that being black is worse than being white. I object to them saying it, I object to them even thinking it. Having this within our society at all is harmful, because of the ideas it spreads and the issues it causes.

The same for homophobia.

 

[rusra02]

The Bible describes Man as uniquely made in God's image; that is, with moral qualities possessed by God. Animals operate largely instinctively, without moral discernment. We cannot use animal behavior to decide what is acceptable for humans. Cats kill the offspring of other cats, for one example of behavior acceptable in animals but completely unacceptable for us. Further, I believe the way animals behave today is not what God purposed. The Bible promises the time will come when animal behavior will change radically. (Isaiah 11:6-9) I think the natural world has suffered great harm caused by man's rebellion against God, damage that will be repaired in God's due time.

 

[Father Heathen]

I think what counts is God's view of homosexual conduct, not the shifting theories of men. Since God created us, he knows best what is for our good or harm. And the Bible is consistent in it's view of homosexuality, be it male or female. The Bible frankly states that homosexual conduct is " uncleanness", "contrary to nature", "obscene", "error", "indecency", etc. (Romans 1:24-27) the Bible speaks about some who practiced such things, but left them behind upon learning God's requirements. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
As to marriage, God made this arrangement for a man and his wife, male and female. (Matthew 19:5,6) Any other pairing is outside the boundary God has set for marriage and contrary to God's purpose for marriage. Whatever men choose to do regarding same-sex "marriage", such unnatural unions have no acceptance with the true God, IMO.

There is a difference between god and those who presume to speak god's behalf (such as religious leaders, the authors of the bible, etc.). Anyone can use the concept of god as a sock puppet and put words in his mouth, but without logic or evidence, people can see that it's not god, but just a sock.

Nobody has any interest in your sock.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

So we are getting closer to a cure...

If you can look at an embryo and determine it's sexual preference and find out it will homosexual, what do you do? Pick a different embryo to allow to be born?

Would it be immoral to do so?

It isn't an illness and cannot be cured. It cannot be cured any more than heterosexuality can be cured.

And in terms of what is ethical it comes down to your ethics in how much the parent should have a right to say about their child and abortion. Many people would feel that they have the right to abort a child for any reason. This reason of being homosexual or heterosexual would be no more ethical or unethical than aborting a child because of its gender or Begin qualities such as hair and eye color. I would say it is far more unethical than if the child had some sort of debilitating illness such as down syndrome or such.

 

[Kirran]

The Bible describes Man as uniquely made in God's image; that is, with moral qualities possessed by God. Animals operate largely instinctively, without moral discernment. We cannot use animal behavior to decide what is acceptable for humans. Cats kill the offspring of other cats, for one example of behavior acceptable in animals but completely unacceptable for us. Further, I believe the way animals behave today is not what God purposed. The Bible promises the time will come when animal behavior will change radically. (Isaiah 11:6-9) I think the natural world has suffered great harm caused by man's rebellion against God, damage that will be repaired in God's due time.

Standard point: why have we banned slavery, when there's no condemnation in the Bible?

 

[rusra02]

There is a difference between god and those who presume to speak god's behalf (such as religious leaders, the authors of the bible, etc.). Anyone can use the concept of god as a sock puppet and put words in his mouth, but without logic or evidence, people can see that it's not god, but just a sock.

Nobody has any interest in your sock.

If my God is the true God (and I believe he is), he will back up his words by actions.(Zephaniah 1:12-18)

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If my God is the true God (and I believe he is), he will back up his words by actions.(Zephaniah 1:12-18)

Yes, you all have been waiting for twenty centuries. i wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[rusra02]

Yes, you all have been waiting for twenty centuries. i wouldn't hold my breath.

What seems like a long time to us is very short to the eternal God.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What seems like a long time to us is very short to the eternal God.

Yeah, I'm sure he's got nothing better to do. He'll be along to check on us bacteria any minute.