Islamaphobia

[firedragon]

Thank you!

The wikipedia entry for the Al-Qarada raid is a quick read. If you have time, would you please take a look at it and provide feedback? Does the Wikipedia entry accurately describe the raid?

Al-Qarada raid - Wikipedia

No. Wikipedia is not a scholarly source. You have to go to their sources, which has other sources. All of them will end up with Al-Tabari ultimately and this is what Al-Tabari says. He says that "the Quraishi said that Muhammeds followers had intercepted their caravans". You understand. He doesn't say this definitely happened. Again, he says "The Quraishi said".

Also, Tabari was collecting these stories at least 150 years after Muhammed died. So there could be many errors, myths, lies and truths. You never really know. The whole historicity of these stories are in question.

 

[firedragon]

Eh. Not playing this game, pal.

For one thing, it is a waste of time. If you are set on exercising selective perception in order to validate the Qur'an, you will of course succeed.

That is not what I am talking about, and holds no interest for me... because that is not how a scripture can be made or validated.

Even a butcher's training book can be raised to scripture if given sufficiently partial a reading.

The proof is in the pudding, in the actual effect of the scripture (or more properly, the doctrine) on actual people.

So you haven't read anything of his but you claim that I claimed he hasn't read the Quran properly because I was dishonest. Nice.

 

[LuisDantas]

So you haven't read anything of his but you claim that I claimed he hasn't read the Quran properly because I was dishonest. Nice.

More like I do not fit your narrative.

 

[firedragon]

More like I do not fit your narrative.

Not really.

 

[icehorse]

So which Bill Warner book about Quran have you read, and why do you believe he has read it correctly and accuse others of negating him purely out of dishonesty?

Among other things, he's done statistical analysis of Islamic scripture. He's actually counted lines of text and words. One of his findings is that Islamic scripture spends a huge amount of time worrying about non-Muslims. This is a purely objective analysis. It's just data.

 

[firedragon]

Among other things, he's done statistical analysis of Islamic scripture. He's actually counted lines of text and words. One of his findings is that Islamic scripture spends a huge amount of time worrying about non-Muslims. This is a purely objective analysis. It's just data.

He is utterly wrong. Unless you think non-muslims can be muslim too. Study it. Dont just quote it.

 

[icehorse]

He is utterly wrong. Unless you think non-muslims can be muslim too. Study it. Dont just quote it.

How many times do I have to tell you that I've read the book? Also, I'm a professional editor. I'm trained to read books the way normal people read them, as opposed to how scholars might read them.

 

[firedragon]

How many times do I have to tell you that I've read the book? Also, I'm a professional editor. I'm trained to read books the way normal people read them, as opposed to how scholars might read them.

I said study his thesis. This thing about the number of times... etc.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

And I feel it's important to criticize any and all ideologies that promote misogyny, homophobia, supremacism, and / or anti-secularism.

As well you should! I feel the same where it pertains to Islam. As an American, the threat here is from other groups and not Islam.

Ultimately I separate ancient creed from modern practice. There are major problems with some Islamic groups, and I do not support fundamentalism that disagrees with modern secular values that I feel are important. I do support the modern style of Islam that adds diversity and community to my country.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

We will have to agree to disagree here. Not so much about the facts as about their implications.

That is likely, but don't mistake my insistence as having a closed mind on the subject. I simply struggle with applying ancient text to modern practice.

It probably comes down to diverging opinions about what would happen were it not for Islaam. I sincerely doubt that there are any people who turned out for the better because of Islaam, but I don't think that I can prove it - although the evidence is plentiful and IMO incredibly convincing.

Well, aside from diving into more research on a Friday afternoon, my response to this is that people apparently become inspired enough to adopt it. Cat Stevens is one off the top of my head.

It is highly dogmatic even by Abrahamic standards; it defines itself far more than it would be advisable from its scripture; said scripture is explicitly crystalized and immutable, thereby denying the doctrine badly needed room for self-improvement; and it is, from its very conception, tainted by unhealthy reliance on monotheism as "truth" as opposed to a form of inspiration.

Oh, and it spends a remarkable percentage of its own scripture telling Muslims how they should not dare believe that non-Muslims might conceivably be people worth of equal respect and dignity unless they repent and _become_ Muslims.

Do you have specific examples?

 

[Lyndon]

We will have to agree to disagree here. Not so much about the facts as about their implications.

It probably comes down to diverging opinions about what would happen were it not for Islaam. I sincerely doubt that there are any people who turned out for the better because of Islaam, but I don't think that I can prove it - although the evidence is plentiful and IMO incredibly convincing.



It is highly dogmatic even by Abrahamic standards; it defines itself far more than it would be advisable from its scripture; said scripture is explicitly crystalized and immutable, thereby denying the doctrine badly needed room for self-improvement; and it is, from its very conception, tainted by unhealthy reliance on monotheism as "truth" as opposed to a form of inspiration.

Oh, and it spends a remarkable percentage of its own scripture telling Muslims how they should not dare believe that non-Muslims might conceivably be people worth of equal respect and dignity unless they repent and _become_ Muslims.

your comments represent pure unadulterated hate speech

 

[Lyndon]

How many times do I have to tell you that I've read the book? Also, I'm a professional editor. I'm trained to read books the way normal people read them, as opposed to how scholars might read them.

did you read that horrible paperback translation they sell at bookstores, that wasn't even translated by a Muslim???

 

[firedragon]

Hate speech in a thread named "Islamaphobia". The irony can cut through air.

 

[icehorse]

did you read that horrible paperback translation they sell at bookstores, that wasn't even translated by a Muslim???

which translation(s) have you studied? I've read one cover to cover and done spot checking (to look for inconsistencies) with two others. I have found no serious inconsistencies between the three.

 

[Lyndon]

which one did you read?? I read the King Faud Saudi edition which is considered the best and the most used at mosques, the Yusef Ali one is quite respected too

 

[LuisDantas]

your comments represent pure unadulterated hate speech

Oh, Lyndon, you are always such a tease.

Take care.

 

[LuisDantas]

Hate speech in a thread named "Islamaphobia". The irony can cut through air.

Frankly, I have no idea of why you would say such a thing.

I am of half a mind to ask you whether you are new to Islaam.

 

[Wasp]

which translation(s) have you studied? I've read one cover to cover and done spot checking (to look for inconsistencies) with two others. I have found no serious inconsistencies between the three.

You read how many commentaries?

 

[icehorse]

You read how many commentaries?

Say more about "commentaries" please? Sincerely, "commentaries" can come in many forms and I'm not sure which ones you're referring to?

 

[Wasp]

Say more about "commentaries" please? Sincerely, "commentaries" can come in many forms and I'm not sure which ones you're referring to?

The ones that come with the books if the translations are worth anything.