islam and barbarity

[Assad91]

I agree.
However, there was, indeed, "normative" Islam - both Shia and Sunni.
The Saud/Wahhabi corruption of Sunni Islam and the Khomeini corruption of Shia Islam, are hell bent on destroying the world.

Wow. Never thought I'd see someone try to equate those who believe in Wilayat al faqih to Wahabis.

And why talk like muslims=Arabs. Did I miss something, or are Persians now Arabs?

 

[Moishe3rd]

Wow. Never thought I'd see someone try to equate those who believe in Wilayat al faqih to Wahabis.

And why talk like muslims=Arabs. Did I miss something, or are Persians now Arabs?

Yes. You missed something. I did not "talk like muslims=Arabs."

Sorry about the Vilayat al Fiqh incomprehension.
Perhaps you would like to explain Khomeini's reasoning within the bounds of Sharia or custom according to Shia when he invented this cult?
It would be good if you could teach those who do not know as much as you... no?

 

[YmirGF]

Although many individuals who are Muslims can be described as barbarians, they are hardly alone under that banner. Islam itself is not barbaric, though its application can be.

 

[Assad91]

Yes. You missed something. I did not "talk like muslims=Arabs."

Sorry about the Vilayat al Fiqh incomprehension.
Perhaps you would like to explain Khomeini's reasoning within the bounds of Sharia or custom according to Shia when he invented this cult?
It would be good if you could teach those who do not know as much as you... no?

Cult? Hardly a cult. If anything is to be equated as something similar to the wahabi death cult, it would be Zionism.

I'm not wholeheartedly sure I support wilayat al faqih, or the guardianship of the jurist. But I know its nothing like wahabism.

Your the one who is constantly bashing wilayat and ayatollahs without mentioning how they are similar to wahabism.


If i'm missing anything, I think its because you're lacking any explanations as to how your criticism is legitimate or accurate. I think its you who needs to explain your baseless assertions

 

[Moishe3rd]

Cult? Hardly a cult. If anything is to be equated as something similar to the wahabi death cult, it would be Zionism.

I'm not wholeheartedly sure I support wilayat al faqih, or the guardianship of the jurist. But I know its nothing like wahabism.

Your the one who is constantly bashing wilayat and ayatollahs without mentioning how they are similar to wahabism.


If i'm missing anything, I think its because you're lacking any explanations as to how your criticism is legitimate or accurate. I think its you who needs to explain your baseless assertions

Okay. Sorry. I thought you would be better informed than I.
According to Shia Sharia, the Hidden Imam; the Mahdi, MUST "arrive;" become corporeal; "come out of the well;" no longer be in occlusion; etc. in order for there to be a (the) Rightly Guided Caliph (the Mahdi) who can form an Islamic government that can command the people in all things, including Jihad.
To form an Islamic Shia government without the Hidden Imam that commands the people to behave in a certain manner and to specifically wage war in the name of this government is blasphemy.
There have been countless numbers of Shia sects, some death cults, some not, that either no longer exist or are no longer considered Shia (such as the Druze and the Assassins).
Any nominally Muslim cult that promotes hirabah, global totalitarianism, without a Rightly Guided Caliph; which promotes suicide by murder (a crime in both Shia and Sunni Sharia - contrary to popular belief, the Assassin cultists were Not allowed to commit suicide as that was a definite crime against Allah); and that promotes the slaughter of innocents (another crime in Islam), is a collection of criminal killers - musfidun - that have no place in Islam.
Both the death cults of Vilayat al Fiqh and Wahabism are perpetrated by fattan; subversive tempters who seek to destroy Dar al-Islam.

Your comments would be more than welcome.

 

[Assad91]

Okay. Sorry. I thought you would be better informed than I.
According to Shia Sharia, the Hidden Imam; the Mahdi, MUST "arrive;" become corporeal; "come out of the well;" no longer be in occlusion; etc. in order for there to be a (the) Rightly Guided Caliph (the Mahdi) who can form an Islamic government that can command the people in all things, including Jihad.
To form an Islamic Shia government without the Hidden Imam that commands the people to behave in a certain manner and to specifically wage war in the name of this government is blasphemy.

I know this argument, which I need to further investigate. I didn't study controversial matters within Shia Islam before becoming Shia.


I know the counterargument is that the jurist is the rep of the Imam (as).

Regardless of its validity, I fail to see its resemblance to wahabism and its puritanical ways

 

[Moishe3rd]

I know this argument, which I need to further investigate. I didn't study controversial matters within Shia Islam before becoming Shia.


I know the counterargument is that the jurist is the rep of the Imam (as).

Regardless of its validity, I fail to see its resemblance to wahabism and its puritanical ways

Then I suggest you read the rest of my screed and contemplate.
"Puritanism" is not a death cult. Being "puritanical" merely means that you think you are better than everyone else who does not believe the same way you do.
The Vilayat al Fiqh death cult believes that those who do not accept the blasphemous government of Iran should be murdered and tortured and that those who do believe in their hirabah should be willing to commit suicide in order to murder innocents who do not believe as they do...
As do the Wahhabis.

 

[Assad91]

Then I suggest you read the rest of my screed and contemplate.
"Puritanism" is not a death cult. Being "puritanical" merely means that you think you are better than everyone else who does not believe the same way you do.
The Vilayat al Fiqh death cult believes that those who do not accept the blasphemous government of Iran should be murdered and tortured and that those who do believe in their hirabah should be willing to commit suicide in order to murder innocents who do not believe as they do...
As do the Wahhabis.

I'd like to see actual proof of this nonsense you're spreading.

 

[Moishe3rd]

I'd like to see actual proof of this nonsense you're spreading.

Proof of what?
Torture? The government of Vilayat al Fiqh literally stones women to death for adultery?
Iran Infuriated By Film Of Woman's Stoning - YouTube
Iran aims to keep stoning as punishment for adultery, rights group says
Murder? The government of Vilayat al Fiqh is the ONLY support for Hezbollah and Assad in Syria who have, between them, murdered over 100,000 Syrian Arabs.
The government of Vilayat al Fiqh used children in suicide attacks against Iraq in the Iran Iraq war.

Lacking the equipment to open secure passages through Iraqi minefields, and having too few tanks, the Iranian command again resorted to the human-wave tactic. In March 1984, an East European journalist claimed that he "saw tens of thousands of children, roped together in groups of about twenty to prevent the faint-hearted from deserting, make such an attack." The Iranians made little, if any, progress despite these sacrifices. Perhaps as a result of this performance, Tehran, for the first time, used a regular army unit, the 92nd Armored Division, at the Battle of the Marshes a few weeks later.

The government of Vilayat al Fiqh as a global totalitarian despot State that practices hirabah?
Oh hell.
Look it up yourself. Try "Iranian protests 2009-2010.

If you wanna be Shia, why don't you find out what the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani thought of Khomeini's Death Cult?

Your ignorance of the political differences in your chosen religion are somewhat astounding.

 

[Riverwolf]

My sympathy, I know what you mean. "Waking up is hard to do." (paraphrase of an old pop song, at risk of dating myself, I suppose)

Please expand on post-industrial Europe. I'm not aware of religious wars at that time.

"Religious" is just the paint job obscuring the real issue. The Middle East is going through a massive paradigm shift, in which the inevitable outcome will years of massive strife followed by a new golden age, just like all other times in history when this happens (such as in post-Industrial Europe... and post-Roman Europe.)

 

[Riverwolf]

Yet, if the problems are evident across disparate cultures, what then?

Human nature.

ALL cultures, without exception, had all kinds of problems that modern sensibilities would be shocked at. Did you know that in ancient Rome, it was perfectly acceptable to toss unwanted babies into the garbage dump?

 

[Riverwolf]

and it would be like that till Muslims purify their belief and know that democracy will never lead to Islam

When I read the Qur'an, it seemed perfectly compatible with a democratic government.

Do you know what democracy is? (Hint: not America.)

 

[Assad91]

Proof of what?
Torture? The government of Vilayat al Fiqh literally stones women to death for adultery?
Iran Infuriated By Film Of Woman's Stoning - YouTube
Iran aims to keep stoning as punishment for adultery, rights group says
Murder? The government of Vilayat al Fiqh is the ONLY support for Hezbollah and Assad in Syria who have, between them, murdered over 100,000 Syrian Arabs.
The government of Vilayat al Fiqh used children in suicide attacks against Iraq in the Iran Iraq war.

The government of Vilayat al Fiqh as a global totalitarian despot State that practices hirabah?
Oh hell.
Look it up yourself. Try "Iranian protests 2009-2010.

If you wanna be Shia, why don't you find out what the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani thought of Khomeini's Death Cult?

Your ignorance of the political differences in your chosen religion are somewhat astounding.

Non of that is even relevant to the accusations you made

 

[Monotheist 101]

Interesting how you are so quick to point out in others what you yourself are guilty of...

Want a cookie?...nvm Ive run out..how about dog biscuits?

 

[sandandfoam]

It's probably worth remembering that when Europeans were washing once a year, burning heretics and living in mud huts Muslim libraries were preserving the works of ancient Greece, Muslim society was offering a liberal refuge to persecuted people and science was flourishing in their communities.

 

[Looncall]

It's probably worth remembering that when Europeans were washing once a year, burning heretics and living in mud huts Muslim libraries were preserving the works of ancient Greece, Muslim society was offering a liberal refuge to persecuted people and science was flourishing in their communities.

So why is present muslim society just about the opposite of what you describe?

A previous golden age does not excuse present barbarity.

 

[Riverwolf]

So why is present muslim society just about the opposite of what you describe?

A previous golden age does not excuse present barbarity.

'Course not.

It just means that Islam has nothing inherently to do with it.

 

[nameless]

As I said later, if the cultures were either identical, or worse, than their current manifestations, then Islam is not the cause.

so it means that islam is fine with those cultures.
anyway, during the time of muhammad who was religiously intolerant? muhammad or the pagans?

 

[Riverwolf]

so it means that islam is fine with those cultures.

More likely that cultures don't change when the religious coat of paint changes, just as it was in Europe.

anyway, during the time of muhammad who was religiously intolerant? muhammad or the pagans?

My basic understanding is that they were both equally intolerant of each other.

 

[dynavert2012]

When I read the Qur'an, it seemed perfectly compatible with a democratic government.

Do you know what democracy is? (Hint: not America.)

i think there's misunderstanding of my words, my words don't mean that Islam and democracy are contradicted "although they actually are" but my words refer to that we can't enforce Islam through a democratic way via a free elections and when the majority wants Islam it would be enforced, this will never happen, and the evil powers won't approve it as we are weak and have nothing to protect our votes and the examples are what happened in Algeria in the 90"s and recently in Egypt and if you read about the history of Turkey how the army had executed there Adnan mandrees and then jailed negmedin arbican, a true Muslim leader isn't allowed to rule even if he comes by a free elections

replying to your point why Islam and democracy don't mix, as i understood that democracy means the sovereignty for the people, surly Islam says the sovereignty for Allah , democracy means that what the majority agreed on must be applied, so Egypt approved a constitution on 2012 by 64% although of the rejection of secular and Christians, France, Belgium and Switzerland banned Islamic niqab by a democratic way the majority approved it but this is not Islam, in Islam the majority don't have the right to beat the minority, in Islam the constitution must be approved by All not a majority when prophet Mohamed went to madina he made a constitution approved by all tribes, by pagans, by Jews by Muslims and so nobody feel oppression because he's minority, and so he could build a strong state, but democracy let the majority approved what they will and let the minority hit it's head in the walls