Isiah 45:7.

[Father]

Isiah 45:7 a somewhat overlooked passage of the Old Testament. but the one quote that is from the King James version is " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." the verse itself is quite metaphoric though I don't think that was the intention because the bronze age writers probably did not know darkness is just the absence of Light and is not created. simply a subtraction of a light source.

If the verse itself is taken as is it pretty much states the source of Light and Dark. Good and Evil. is first and foremost God.

there are other verses from different translations like in NCV "I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things."

which has a far less powerful quote. but still does not really remove the issue.

if God creates Good and Evil. which is backed by the tree of knowledge which Adam and Eve ate from granting them knowledge of Good and Evil. or essentially Gods Morality. can there truly be an Adversary?

what are your thoughts on this?

 

[Ingledsva]

There is no evil Satan in Tanakh.

*

 

[Father]

There is no evil Satan in Tanakh.

*

that's my point. in Judaism inherently there is no Satan no Lucifer. everything is first and foremost by God.

 

[osgart]

this seems all to say that the Bible is false. fine. but if I was somehow to justify it I would say that the bible says that God is none willing that any should perish. and the evil that God does is just, not to be compared with satan, the adversary of the faithful as also told in the bible. Satan goes around seeking whom he may devour and seeks to destroy God entirely and his faithful.

so you can go on and on justifying God's actions in the O.T. and new. God deems evil whom is evil, and faithful whom is faithful, and suppose that's true of all the things God does. than you start reading it from that vantage point. and make true of everything the bible says. you still would have to fill in a ton of gaping holes and inconsistencies in that book.

and one things for certain God commands and you don't understand why, you have every right to defy god, because no one should act on blind command.

so maybe the bible is an test to see how gullible one is, and how morally influencable one is, to the point of total irrationality.

 

[Ingledsva]

that's my point. in Judaism inherently there is no Satan no Lucifer. everything is first and foremost by God.

If you believe in Gods.

Also, the name Lucifer is not even in Tanakh.

*

 

[Father]

If you believe in Gods.

Also, the name Lucifer is not even in Tanakh.

*

well, i am Deist so I don't believe in any real "God" as in a supernatural being needing worship. i simply like arguing biblical scripture because its fun,

 

[sun rise]

well, i am Deist so I don't believe in any real "God" as in a supernatural being needing worship. i simply like arguing biblical scripture because its fun,

I had to chuckle at your post about arguing scripture because it's fun. If only more people treated such things lightly rather than (deadly) serious.

 

[Father]

I had to chuckle at your post about arguing scripture because it's fun. If only more people treated such things lightly rather than (deadly) serious.

Even if I studied my whole life took a time travel back and had full on discussions with the writers came back and stated with all amass of facts what each verse actually means. there would still be a large group of people not changing their minds. so being serious or getting flustered about it is pointless. all that matters is that I point it out and in turn better understand it my self.

 

[David1967]

There is no evil Satan in Tanakh.

*

Is that in Minnesota?

 

[Father]

Is that in Minnesota?

you know I am going to feel really stupid if she meant a town and not some Holy book like the Torah.

 

[David1967]

you know I am going to feel really stupid if she meant a town and not some Holy book like the Torah.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

 

[osgart]

If you believe in Gods.

Also, the name Lucifer is not even in Tanakh.

*

who is The Adversary, in Job of the Tanakh, whom walked to and fro in the earth?

 

[Father]

who is The Adversary, in Job of the Tanakh, whom walked to and fro in the earth?

a lack of knowledge does not mean its Lucifer.
we may not know who the satan was referring to.

 

[osgart]

what then is the authoritative scripture?

for instance why is Ezekiel excluded from Tanakh?

push, pull, add, drop, who is deciding all this scriptural editing? and how would the average guy know whom is the sincere authority on it.

 

[Father]

what then is the authoritative scripture?

for instance why is Ezekiel excluded from Tanakh?

push, pull, add, drop, who is deciding all this scriptural editing? and how would the average guy know whom is the sincere authority on it.

the dead who wrote it, as for Editing. Sincerely from the Catholic church

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Isiah 45:7 a somewhat overlooked passage of the Old Testament. but the one quote that is from the King James version is " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." the verse itself is quite metaphoric though I don't think that was the intention because the bronze age writers probably did not know darkness is just the absence of Light and is not created. simply a subtraction of a light source.

If the verse itself is taken as is it pretty much states the source of Light and Dark. Good and Evil. is first and foremost God.

there are other verses from different translations like in NCV "I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things."

which has a far less powerful quote. but still does not really remove the issue.

if God creates Good and Evil. which is backed by the tree of knowledge which Adam and Eve ate from granting them knowledge of Good and Evil. or essentially Gods Morality. can there truly be an Adversary?

what are your thoughts on this?

First off, I note in the context, that God is directing His attention to Cyrus, who was His executor of judgement against Babylon. He did 'create the evil' against Babylon, and created darkness mentally speaking, where only Daniel could give the understanding of Nebuchadnezzar's dreams, including the writing on the wall. Interesting that the verbs in the verse are in the present tense, not past tense.

Take care.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

who is The Adversary, in Job of the Tanakh, whom walked to and fro in the earth?

There are two satans in Judaism (at least, some of those beliefs I've read.) There is an angel, but he isn't evil. He is more like the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Exists on God's authority to test mankind's worthiness. (Angels in Judaism are extensions of God's will and couldn't rebel even if they wanted to, rather like your arm couldn't rebel against your body. Only humans have free will in that respect.) In Judaism the biggest and most problematic Satan is in humans. The adversary is the inclination to sin in all human hearts. To a Jew, worrying about who is tempting you is shifting blame.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Angels in Judaism are extensions of God's will and couldn't rebel even if they wanted to, rather like your arm couldn't rebel against your body. Only humans have free will in that respect

What Bible passages do you back this up with? The Greek Scriptures (NT) discusses this: 2 Peter 2:4 speaks of "the angels who sinned," and Jude 6 refers to "angels who forsook their original dwelling place ( Genesis 6:1-3)" are reserved for "judgement". They are not automatons.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

What Bible passages do you back this up with? The Greek Scriptures (NT) discusses this: 2 Peter 2:4 speaks of "the angels who sinned," and Jude 6 refers to "angels who forsook their original dwelling place ( Genesis 6:1-3)" are reserved for "judgement". They are not automatons.

The NT isn't part of Jewish belief, you realize... As for the benei elokim and nephilim, in Jewish belief they aren't angels and descendant of angels. (Nor were they giants in stature, but giants in evil.) Nephilim: Fallen Angels, Giants or Men? - The mystery of Genesis 6:1–4 Rather, they were powerful leaders of men with great evil who caused the world to fall.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The NT isn't part of Jewish belief, you realize... As for the benei elokim and nephilim, in Jewish belief they aren't angels and descendant of angels. (Nor were they giants in stature, but giants in evil.) Nephilim: Fallen Angels, Giants or Men? - The mystery of Genesis 6:1–4 Rather, they were powerful leaders of men with great evil who caused the world to fall.

Hello. Thanks for that link! Interesting.
Did you not state, though, that Jews say that Angels can't sin?
Here's an excerpt from that link, that indicates otherwise....
**The Midrash3 relates that when the generation of the Flood went astray, G‑d began to regret having created man. Then two angels, Shamchazai and Azael,4 came before G‑d and said, “Did we not warn You before You created man, saying, ‘What is man, that You should be mindful of him?’”5 G‑d replied: “Then what shall become of the world?” “We will suffice instead,” they replied. G‑d answered, “I know that would you live on that world, the evil inclination would rule you just as much as it controls man, but you would be even worse.” But the angels persisted.....***