Is the Quran the same as the Gospels, New Testament and the Bible at large (Its a Bahai claim)?

[Marcion]

Buddhist and Hindu scriptures do not necessarily reflect the Words of Buddha or any deity in Hinduism.

Its not about lip service, simply stating accurately the Baha’i view.

Yes, and I see that view as flawed, but as you said it is only a belief.

The scriptures of Ananda Marga reflect 100% the Words of Shrii Shrii Anandamurti.
Of course the words of Shiva and Krishna were only written down after some generations had passed, so they can never be 100% accurate.
The writings of the New Testament have a lot of pseudo-graphical words of Jesus, they do not at all reflect the words of Jesus correctly.
In fact it is the voice and the ideas of Christians rather than those of Jesus that are reflected in the New Testament.
If you want to hear the voice of Jesus you have to use a heavy filter.

I'm writing this during a local solar eclipse (not full but almost max at this moment) which I'm seeing online from Leiden through a telescope with a heavy filter.

 

[firedragon]

How Baha’is view the Quran is quite different and that’s the question asked. The Quran is seen as word for word that which Muhammad spoke.

So not Gods word?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes you do. Its always a Tu Quoque fallacy, or a strawman. Predominantly. So in this effort to do a Tu Quoque, most of the Bahai's do the same thing. When the Bible is questioned, they bring up the Quran and say its the same.

I find it is best to see the good in others. That is what I’ve learnt through growing up Christian and becoming Baha’i.

The Quran and the NT are not the same.

So not Gods word?

Not in the same way the Quran is God’s Word. The Words of Jesus are also God’s Words but the Gospel accounts are based on the recollections of the Disciples passed down through oral traditions and redacted to meet the needs of the emerging Church.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There are severe corruptions in the Bible for example what it states about Talut, slavery, and other things, goes against reason, it's central theme, and also Quran refutes it.

To "refute" means to "show incorrect", to "disprove".
The quran does not such thing.

At best, the quran makes contradicting claims.

You don't disprove a claim by piling on claims.

 

[firedragon]

Not in the same way the Quran is God’s Word. The Words of Jesus are also God’s Words but the Gospel accounts are based on the recollections of the Disciples passed down through oral traditions and redacted to meet the needs of the emerging Church.

I asked in relation to this comment of yours.

"The Quran is seen as word for word that which Muhammad spoke."

You have also made many comments about what Muhammed would have thought, how Muhammed would find it, etc etc as if it is a naturalistic approach and written purely by Muhammed, not Gods word.

Thats the motivation for this question I asked.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I asked in relation to this comment of yours.

"The Quran is seen as word for word that which Muhammad spoke."

You have also made many comments about what Muhammed would have thought, how Muhammed would find it, etc etc as if it is a naturalistic approach and written purely by Muhammed, not Gods word.

Thats the motivation for this question I asked.

As I understand it, the process through which God Reveals Himself whether through Muhammad or Jesus, is viewed very differently by Muslims and Baha’is. You will know that by now.

Its a very different topic. Feel free to start another thread and tag me. I probably won’t respond for a while as its nearly midnight here and I’m working tomorrow.

 

[firedragon]

As I understand it, the process through which God Reveals Himself whether through Muhammad or Jesus, is viewed very differently by Muslims and Baha’is. You will know that by now.

Its a very different topic. Feel free to start another thread and tag me. I probably won’t respond for a while as its nearly midnight here and I’m working tomorrow.

Its alright. Its not necessary.

Have a good night.

 

[Link]

To "refute" means to "show incorrect", to "disprove".
The quran does not such thing.

At best, the quran makes contradicting claims.

You don't disprove a claim by piling on claims.

Actually it disproves it in my view.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Actually it disproves it in my view.

Actually it does not.

The bible makes claim X and the quran makes claim Y.

Y does not disprove X merely because you believe Y and not X.
Instead, what you have here are merely 2 claims that contradict. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You know what I like about you?

Eventhough we disagree on pretty much everything, there's no topic you shy away or run from.
And if cornered or unfcomfortable concerning a certain topic, you'll more then likely just say so.

There's a level of honesty there that one can only appreciate.

Some people here can learn a lesson or two from you.

Actually i find more and more good in you @TagliatelliMonster maybe because i realized how little i know and how little i knew in the past.

 

[Colt]

Lacking the visible presence of God sincere believers want so desperately to have an authoritative text of divine perfection that they can put their full trust in. Nothing touched by human hands is perfect and particularly when there has been a sectarian rivalry between regional religions.

 

[Link]

Actually it does not.

The bible makes claim X and the quran makes claim Y.

Y does not disprove X merely because you believe Y and not X.
Instead, what you have here are merely 2 claims that contradict. Nothing more, nothing less.

Quran proves everything it claims, it's book of insights, proofs, and signs.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Quran proves everything it claims, it's book of insights, proofs, and signs.

Yes, that is what muslims believe.

 

[firedragon]

The Quran and the NT are not the same.

This is your statement.

"One can not prove the Words of Jesus contained in the Gospels were Revealed by God anymore than the Words Spoken by Muhammad and recorded in the Quran can be proved to be Revealed by Allah."

So is that the case? Can you provide any evidence your statement is correct? And how could that be reconciled? What is your explanation or/and thesis on this subject you brought up?

Ill tell you what. Ill give you a small, simple example why your statement is so farfetched and is just a tu quoque fallacy that you used as a response. See, one thing anyone must knows is, Tu Quoque's are generally too quick to have good thought behind them, and is a well known logical fallacy. The problem is, even if another person explains this a 1000 times, you never accept that it is a logical fallacy.

Prophet: Jesus and Muhammed
Book: Four canonical books in the NT someone called Gospel according to at a latter date and Quran which calls itself within it.
Carbon dating: Scrap from 2nd century called P52 and 2 folios called Arabe 28 or Birmingham Qur'an dating to latest 13 years after the death of Muhammed and completes his lifetime as date range.
Internal dating: Dated to earliest 30 years after the death of Jesus and Quran being dated to Muhammeds time.

So tell me. Are they the same in your equation above? How can they even be compared?

 

[SalixIncendium]

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