Is the Left Self-Critical Enough?

[Sunstone]

Please Note: This thread is posted in the Liberals Only subforum. If you are not a Liberal, you are not permitted to post in this thread.


Is the left sufficiently self-critical?

Humans being social animals, all human groups or collections of people tend to come up with their own versions of "political correctness", of group-think. These canons of correct thought are then zealously guarded by the busy-bodies that are in every group or collection. Meanwhile, ideas do not get sufficiently examined to weed out the true from the false. When this process goes unchecked, the group or collection starts to hold and espouse ideas that only an idiot -- or a social animal trying to conform -- would truly believe.

That will always be how it goes unless the tendency towards political correctness, unexamined ideas, and absurdity is actively combated. You can't just sit back, refuse to confront and challenge new ideas, and then expect things to work out well.

To combat these sorts of thinking requires people to be willing to engage and critically examine their own ideas. Which raises the question, is the Left currently self-critical enough? Are we allowing too many bad ideas to become untouchable ideas? And if so, what can be done about it?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I would say nowhere near enough.

 

[Sunstone]

I would say nowhere near enough.

Why do you say that? Could you give some examples?

 

[PureX]

Charles Bukowski said, “the problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”

There are plenty of people in both the "right" and the "left" camps to whom this would apply. However, as of late, it seems that "the right" has had an obsessive fascination with the ideal of making hard and fast decisions, and then NEVER changing one's mind. So much so that no self-righteous politician dared get caught changing his opinion, vote, or mind regarding ANY political position, EVER, lest he be labelled indecisive, two-faced, "wishy-washy", and therefor a weak-spined liberal by "the right". So I would tend to think that Bukowski's quote applies more to the blind self-righteous confidence of the right, and the "mamba-pambly" impotence of the left, rather than visa-versa.

 

[David T]

Please Note: This thread is posted in the Liberals Only subforum. If you are not a Liberal, you are not permitted to post in this thread.


Is the left sufficiently self-critical?

Humans being social animals, all human groups or collections of people tend to come up with their own versions of "political correctness", of group-think. These canons of correct thought are then zealously guarded by the busy-bodies that are in every group or collection. Meanwhile, ideas do not get sufficiently examined to weed out the true from the false. When this process goes unchecked, the group or collection starts to hold and espouse ideas that only an idiot -- or a social animal trying to conform -- would truly believe.

That will always be how it goes unless the tendency towards political correctness, unexamined ideas, and absurdity is actively combated. You can't just sit back, refuse to confront and challenge new ideas, and then expect things to work out well.

To combat these sorts of thinking requires people to be willing to engage and critically examine their own ideas. Which raises the question, is the Left currently self-critical enough? Are we allowing too many bad ideas to become untouchable ideas? And if so, what can be done about it?

I would recommend spending a lot more time in the larger than human world, but that's become an extremely remote idea. Literacy is a funny thing.

The sacred is common, but everyone seems to have their own private understanding.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Charles Bukowski said, “the problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”

There are plenty of people in both the "right" and the "left" camps to whom this would apply. However, as of late, it seems that "the right" has had an obsessive fascination with the ideal of making hard and fast decisions, and then NEVER changing one's mind. So much so that no self-righteous politician dared get caught changing his opinion, vote, or mind regarding ANY political position, EVER, lest he be labelled indecisive, two-faced, "wishy-washy", and therefor a weak-spined liberal by "the right". So I would tend to think that Bukowski's quote applies more to the blind self-righteous confidence of the right, and the "mamba-pambly" impotence of the left, rather than visa-versa.

This. Absolutely, and without doubt. Yes!
The conservative party (the politicians and the voters) have been wrong about so many topics, as to be nearly uncountable in the last 40 years. But ever since their plutarc masters saw Ollie North and Ronnie just feign ignorance (and demonstrate dementia), with astounding success! The right has drawn its overarching battle plan based purely on pig-headed hubris, denial, willful ignorance, and doubt-sewing propaganda, all in the service of the aristocracy. Science, facts, the masses, and all foresight be damned.

The same period of time has seen the left waffle and continuously caving to the right’s methods, and eventually to their goals, till now there are only the parties of the ultra-fanatical delusional tea-party neocons......vs.......the slightly tamer conservatives.

The “liberals” have internally debated, and laid themselves bare with bitter angst and finger-wringing worry about what is appropriate or intellectually honest enough to be presented to the people for their en masse approval, again and again.
What we need is a powerful God Emperor to slam the butt of his scepter onto the ground, declaring that “Today! On my first day of administration, the military budget is hereby cut in half! Universal healthcare is the rule, for all time. And someone cave in those damn coal mines, and start building some solar panels, you mealy mouthed idiots!! Tomorrow we will discuss law and order. Because this is the will of the people!”

But it will never happen, precisely because the left is too self-critical and self-effacing.

 

[Jesster]

I don't think people in general are self-critical enough. This spreads across all political parties as far as the eye can see. Being liberal definitely doesn't save you from that. Most people are still concerned about the "other" and turn a blind eye to themselves.

But how do you fix that? Each person can certainly start with themselves. Maybe the fix can only be applied on the personal level. I'll start.

 

[PureX]

This. Absolutely, and without doubt. Yes!
The conservative party (the politicians and the voters) have been wrong about so many topics, as to be nearly uncountable in the last 40 years. But ever since their plutarc masters saw Ollie North and Ronnie just feign ignorance (and demonstrate dementia), with astounding success! The right has drawn its overarching battle plan based purely on pig-headed hubris, denial, willful ignorance, and doubt-sewing propaganda, all in the service of the aristocracy. Science, facts, the masses, and all foresight be damned.

The same period of time has seen the left waffle and continuously caving to the right’s methods, and eventually to their goals, till now there are only the parties of the ultra-fanatical delusional tea-party neocons......vs.......the slightly tamer conservatives.

The “liberals” have internally debated, and laid themselves bare with bitter angst and finger-wringing worry about what is appropriate or intellectually honest enough to be presented to the people for their en masse approval, again and again.
What we need is a powerful God Emperor to slam the butt of his scepter onto the ground, declaring that “Today! On my first day of administration, the military budget is hereby cut in half! Universal healthcare is the rule, for all time. And someone cave in those damn coal mines, and start building some solar panels, you mealy mouthed idiots!! Tomorrow we will discuss law and order. Because this is the will of the people!”

But it will never happen, precisely because the left is too self-critical and self-effacing.

As much as I hate to add to the cynicism, I don't think it's so much that the "left" is so confused about what's right as much as it's being corrupted by the same fear and greed that motivates the blind right. Certainly this is true of the "left's" politicians. And I think a fair share of it's members, too.

 

[sealchan]

Please Note: This thread is posted in the Liberals Only subforum. If you are not a Liberal, you are not permitted to post in this thread.


Is the left sufficiently self-critical?

Humans being social animals, all human groups or collections of people tend to come up with their own versions of "political correctness", of group-think. These canons of correct thought are then zealously guarded by the busy-bodies that are in every group or collection. Meanwhile, ideas do not get sufficiently examined to weed out the true from the false. When this process goes unchecked, the group or collection starts to hold and espouse ideas that only an idiot -- or a social animal trying to conform -- would truly believe.

That will always be how it goes unless the tendency towards political correctness, unexamined ideas, and absurdity is actively combated. You can't just sit back, refuse to confront and challenge new ideas, and then expect things to work out well.

To combat these sorts of thinking requires people to be willing to engage and critically examine their own ideas. Which raises the question, is the Left currently self-critical enough? Are we allowing too many bad ideas to become untouchable ideas? And if so, what can be done about it?

I'm not so sure that it's an issue with the politicians as it is a systemic issue...with money in play certain ideas become enhanced and sacred where compromise or even inaction is better. These sacred ideas increase the personal fervor/fever of politics and sow divisiveness. These decisive ideas are religiously based but through abstraction and money they are sanitized for the purpose of separation of church from state.

Politicians should consider first preserving the rights and freedoms of individuals, making use of the knowledge and experience of researchers and public servants, and addressing promptly the critical needs of their constituents. Funds should be made available to support local initiatives that in turn provide small business success and non-profit initiatives. The economy can select the winners from the former and can consider promoting the latter to institutional status if that makes monetary sense.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

As much as I hate to add to the cynicism, I don't think it's so much that the "left" is so confused about what's right as much as it's being corrupted by the same fear and greed that motivates the blind right. Certainly this is true of the "left's" politicians. And I think a fair share of it's members, too.

sorry. Mine was a bit of a rant. However it has been something that I have preached for decades now. The right chose a path that aids the rich in the short term, and refuses to consider it’s own long term implications for everyone and everything else.
And I agree, particularly among the politicians who supposedly represent “the people (i.e. “the left”).
The problem is obvious.....Greed.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

EDIT: Self-removed. Noticed the sub-forum.

 

[PureX]

sorry. Mine was a bit of a rant. However it has been something that I have preached for decades now. The right chose a path that aids the rich in the short term, and refuses to consider it’s own long term implications for everyone and everything else.
And I agree, particularly among the politicians who supposedly represent “the people (i.e. “the left”).
The problem is obvious.....Greed.

Yes. Greed corrupts and poisons everything it touches. And yet when people become afraid that they aren't going to be able to get what they need or want in life, they become greedy, and that makes them and their behavior become even more predatory, mean-spirited, and uncooperative. Which then leads to even more scarcity, and more reason to be afraid. We live in a culture awash in material goods and services, and yet we live in constant fear of being left without. And it's only because we have allowed our own fear and greed to 'own us', and divide us all against each other as we compete for the 'whole pie' (does anyone actually need to be a billionaire? Yet even those who are, still want MORE!). In this malady both the left and the right are guilty. The only difference being that I think those on the left at least recognize the problem. While those on the right have chosen to exalt in it. Which is a form of perversity that becomes impossible to repent.