1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Is the GOD of Qur’an an evolutionist?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Ruh, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    Evolution in Qur’an

    I know it sounds bizarre , specially to my fellow Muslims who cultivate evolution is odd to the fundamental beliefs of Islam but I don’t get it , HOW ? As an honest reader of Qur’an, I see clearly that the Author of the Qur’an nurtured and propagated the theory of evolution. I will be still standing for the correction if someone can show me where and how evolution is against the doctrine of the Qur’an. Any of your compliments/complains are welcome (apart from taking me to the courtyard to behead my head).

    A) First comes first, Did ever Qur’an mention that Adam is the first human in the earth ? Nowhere in Qur’an it was said so . The name Adam (آدم) was mentioned about 20 times in the whole book without citing that he was the first human. An expression related to Adam like ( Al-Insan Al-Awal/الإنسان الأول) may have nailed the whole issue but such expression is absent in Qur’an .

    B) Now let us don these simple verses of Qur’an from chapter 56:

    58- Do you see what you emit?

    59- Is it you who create it or we the creators of it.

    60- We have decreed among you the death and we are not to fail.

    61- On that we change your forms/likenesses/shapes and produce you in what you do not know.

    62- And certainly you knew the first creation so why not you take heed?

    In the above set of verses ALLAH, the Almighty wants us to ponder upon our primitive way of creation and connected it to the change of our forms/shapes. Isn’t it the first pillar of evolution?

    C) The following verse from chapter 6 is going to trigger also:

    133-And your LORD is wealthy who is the Possessor of mercy. If HE wills HE can take you away and grant succession after you to whatever HE wills as HE evolved/raised you from the descendants of another/different tribe/species.

    This verse straight away is saying that we have been changed or evolved from a group or species which was different from human. The Arabic word آخَرِينَ/Akhirin means a different kind/not of same kind. If human are the descendants of human then the veracity of this word is redundant. Therefore ‘Descendants of another tribe/ ذرية قوم اخرين/ thurriyyati qawmin akhareena’ must be other than human. Interestingly there is another word in the same verse which confirms the above to be correct. In Arabic language the relative pronoun’ ما/Ma’ is predominantly used to address other than human which is labeled in Arabic grammar as ‘Have no intelligence/ غَيْرُ عَقْل’ mainly hinting to the animal kingdom other than human . Though there are a lots of exceptions to that, for now we would stick only to its primal meaning and its applicability to the context of the verse. So what we got now from it - human are evolved from non-human species.

    What species it could be? Is there any example for changing the forms of human body mention in the Qur’an? There have been two examples in Qur’an, I guess.


    D) In verse 2:65, 5:60 and 7:166 the human transformation to apes is mentioned 3 times while 5:60 is talking about the pigs 1 time only. As I am not an expert in this science of evolution, the similarities of human and pig are farfetched for me to discuss (just heard that they have a lot of similarities and a common ancestor through primates ) . So, whatever the context is, the Author of the Qur’an at least shows pragmatism of transformation or evolution of forms between human and ape. The lexicons of Arabic language mentioned the word قرد/Qird to denote ape, monkey , baboon , chimpanzee in one basket , generally translates as ape . At least one candidate of evolution plausibly been found in Qur’an and that is ape.

    Ruh
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    Adam - a smart man

    If Adam would be the first human, he had to be an unintelligent person. But Qur’an depicted Adam in a different way. As mentioned earlier in nowhere Qur’an we can find that Adam was the first man, hence we are pretty safe not to contradict any core tenet of Islam, as long as Qur’an is concerned.

    Here are few points about Adam from Qur’an:

    1- Adam was created in Jannah /paradise not in this earth (2:35). In that sense he was an alien to this earth.

    2- Adam was created from clay/dust (3:59) while all other living creatures on this earth were created from water (24:45) . Verse 24:45 further explains that those creatures who were created from water in the face of earth were of 3 categories:

    a) Those who walk on abdomen.

    b) Those who walk on two legs.

    c) Those who walk on four (Qur’an didn’t mention whether 4 legs or 2legs+2 hands).

    The above 2 verses contrasted the space and the ingredient of the creation of Adam and the native creatures of the earth. The primitive ancestors of human kind from the earth must be from the category b or/and c.

    3- When ALLAH, the Almighty wanted to send Adam to the earth the angels argued by saying –

    “And when your Lord was saying to the angels, “I will create a vicegerent in the earth”, they said, “Will you place in it who will spread corruption and will shed the bloods…..” (2:30)

    How did the angels know human in the earth do spread corruption and do fight with one another if Adam was the first human on earth? Did they observe it already? Was the earth full of humans already who were doing those mischiefs? Logically the answer should be yes.

    The Almighty GOD didn’t say that HE was sending the first human or even a human to earth rather said that HE was sending HIS vicegerent/representative (خليفة/Khalifa) . HIS emphasis was on the successorship of Adam on earth . What HIS vicegerent would do in the earth? Probably his mission would be to discipline the primitive human race, to spread knowledge, to establish a chain of modern human settlements. All possibilities were plausible I guess.


    4- The Adam of Qur’an is different than the 4 million years old headmemeber(s) of primitive human race whose archaeological evidences are in hand of human kind . Adam was intelligent and his technical and social skills can be compared only with latter skilled human race existed 100K years back. Qur’an accounts some of Adam’s quality of having superior brain in these ways:

    a) Adam knew the names of the contemporary objects (2:31-33)

    b) Adam could express what was his mind (language!?) (2:37, 5:27, 7:23)

    c) Awareness of his nakedness (7:22)

    d) Knowledge of the existence of deity (7:23)

    e) He got a name (2:33,7:19)

    f) His family knew how to bury the deceased. (5:31)

    The primitive ancestors of Homo sapiens did not have that intelligence like Adam and his family. Human had to wait some millions of years to reach to that level of intelligence.

    Ruh.
     
  3. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    Then why we are called ‘The children of Adam’ (بَنِي آدَمَ) ?

    Approximately 100K years before the modern human race spread out to all over the continents from Africa. We are the children of that human race. As per the Qur’an (and science) the head or the father of that human race was a man aka Adam. Though there were different human race existed in different parts of the world apart from them, they were the best in skill and intelligence. In that sense it is not illogical for us to be called ‘The children of Adam’. In fact there is a verse in Qur’an which plays instrumental in support of this fact in chapter 17:

    70- And certainly WE have exalted the children of Adam and WE scattered them in the land and in the sea and WE have provided them with excellent provisions and WE have chosen them with preferences/selections over many of them we have created.

    The above verse is quite clear – the human race originated from Adam stood way-out than the other human race existed that time. Again the relative pronoun used in this verse من /whom is reserve for human only. That doubly confirms that when children of Adam spread around the world, there were also some human race existed who were backward compared to them in the intelligence.
    Ruh.
     
  4. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    Qur’an confirms we are from a single female ancestor

    Let us look into 2 verses from the Qur’an:

    4:1 O Mankind ! Fear your LORD who created you from a single being (female) and created from her mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women…

    7:189 HE is the one who created you from a single being (female) and made from her, her mate …

    If you look at the Object Pronouns / ضمائر المفعول attached at the ends of different words in those 2 verses and analysis the gender/ الجنس of these verses related to each other, we can confirm that the single being (نفس واحدة) is a female character and not male .I am trying to avoid to discuss it in details just to save time and space . But if someone is really interested , I will do so in a separate post . To keep the issue as simple as it is, the Arabic word for one is Wahid/ واحد and both verses used the same word in its feminine form Wahidatin/ واحدة.


    Now here is the summary:

    01- Adam was not the first human in the planet.
    02- Adam was sent to this earth from a different galactic location.
    03- Human race evolved gradually from a non-human race.
    04- One possible candidate of this non-human race was ape.
    05- The common ancestor of humankind is a female.


    Ruh.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,899
    Ratings:
    +4,514
    Religion:
    Spiritual but not religious
    According to my understanding this does not match with known science, because for example humans evolved from a bottleneck of 10,000 ancestors.

    Thus the Quran’s statement, “O Mankind ! Fear your LORD who created you from a single being” is wrong as I see it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Agnostisch

    Agnostisch Egyptian Man

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    214
    Ratings:
    +96
    Religion:
    Agnosticism
    Specialized scientific research in human history revealed evidence confirming the existence of man millions of years ago, including what was revealed in Kenya where anthropologist Richard Leckie found the remains of a skull dating back more than 2.5 million years, and we're hearing about the existence of a human being, Beijing Man, a Java man and Homo neanderthalensis , human beings found in ancient times of more than 4 million years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    18,702
    Ratings:
    +2,251
    Is the GOD of Qur’an an evolutionist?

    Yes Adam was not the first human being, rather he was the first human being with whom G-d had Converse directly, and as such he was the first Messenger of G-d with a message for his people. Other human being were there.Right, please?

    Regards
     
  8. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    Please give it a close look at the verse . It is talking about a female ancestor of human kind ..
    Genetic 'Adam' and 'Eve' Uncovered | Live Science
    Found: closest link to Eve, our universal ancestor
    Mitochondrial Eve - Wikipedia
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    100% agreed .
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  10. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    True that.
     
  11. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,899
    Ratings:
    +4,514
    Religion:
    Spiritual but not religious
    I’m not sure the details are matching here.
    From your livescience article
    ‘They weren't the first modern humans on the planet, but instead just the two out of thousands of people alive
    at the time with unbroken male or female lineages that continue on today.

    The rest of the human genome contains tiny snippets of DNA from many other ancestors — they just don't show up in mitochondrial or Y-chromosome DNA, Hammer said. (For instance, if an ancient woman had only sons, then her mitochondrial DNA would disappear, even though the son would pass on a quarter of her DNA via the rest of his genome.)‘
    That and genetic Adam never even met mitochondrial Eve let alone have a copy of her genes, which He presumably would have if He was made of her as your Quran interpretation appears to suggest

    ETA in summary we are not all made of one being, and Y-chromosomal Adam is not a genetic twin of mitochondrial Eve as He should be to conform with your interpretation.
     
  12. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    18,702
    Ratings:
    +2,251
    And there is a pertinent verse in Quran which supports progressive creation of humans:

    [71:15]وَ قَدۡ خَلَقَکُمۡ اَطۡوَارًا ﴿۱۵﴾
    ‘And He has created you in different forms and different conditions.
    The Holy Quran - Chapter: 71: Nooh

    Regards
     
    #12 paarsurrey, Apr 18, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    Again if you read the verses I cited closely they tally with what science proposed and so as your understanding.
     
  14. Niblo

    Niblo Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    495
    Ratings:
    +499
    Religion:
    Islam
    Watching.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  15. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    Thanks a lot for watching .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Niblo

    Niblo Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    495
    Ratings:
    +499
    Religion:
    Islam
    Anytime. Making that entry means I get notifications.....saves me having to search everytime I want to see what's going on. :)

    Putting together some thoughts of my own.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Ruh

    Ruh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +75
    Religion:
    Islam
    That is smart :anguished:
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. Niblo

    Niblo Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    495
    Ratings:
    +499
    Religion:
    Islam
    But of course..........I'm Welsh :)
     
  19. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,899
    Ratings:
    +4,514
    Religion:
    Spiritual but not religious
    So do you believe that humans and apes share a common ancestor?
     
  20. Niblo

    Niblo Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    495
    Ratings:
    +499
    Religion:
    Islam
    As-salāmu ʿalaykum, brother.

    Having a great time examining your opening posts, and framing a reply. You raise intriguing - thought provoking - points. Forgive me if it takes a while for me to come back. ʾIn šāʾ -llāh, this will not take too long.
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...