Mr Spinkles
Mr
But the book doesn't identify Einstein as an atheist, so this is much ado about nothing.Scuba Pete said:
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Is Richard Dawkins a good scientist?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Dawkins, probably. Eintein said, (roughly) "God does not play dice with the universe," i.e. quantum mechanics is wrong. He was very wrong indeed about that one.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
There is a point where Dawkins speaks of "intellectual atheists" and ends the passage claiming Einstein as their biggest proponent. I'm sorry, but he's trying to portray Einstein as an atheist, which he clearly and admittedly was not.
I would post the quote here, but Kindle is not letting me highlight and copy text.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Hmm I don't see the part you're referring to. In any case, isn't this just semantics? Whatever labels we toss around, Dawkins is simply saying that he is only calling supernatural gods a "delusion", and not the God referred to by people like Einstein, Stephen Hawking, etc. Whether you agree or disagree with Dawkins, the man has to be allowed to define what he means by "God" before he begins, for clarity's sake.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
One has to wonder WHY he makes such a distinction? It's OK to call people deluded, but it falls apart when Einstein and Hawkings are included among them. What a farse! It's a classic case of "There is no true Scotsman". Believing in God is either delusional or it isn't. Moving the goal posts to include his homies is dishonest.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
You do not understand that "god" does not mean one thing?
mycorrhiza
Well-Known Member
Einstein's and Hawking's God is simply the Universe or the laws of nature. Don't know about Hawking, but Einstein was a pantheist. Many scientists are.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Why is there a need to pigeonhole someone? Einstein wasn't sure what he was, so how can you be so certain?
mycorrhiza
Well-Known Member
He said that he did not believe in a personal God, he viewed the laws of the Universe with great awe and wonder and he said that he believed in Spinoza's God. Sounds like pantheism to me
BobbyisStrange
The Adversary
Yes, he believe in Spinoza's God.
Since I admittedly didn't read the last quote properly, I'm certain with this quote he makes it quite clear he believes in Spinoza's God. I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
There's no dishonesty or goalpost moving on Dawkins' part. He thinks supernatural gods are a delusion. Einstein and Hawking do (did) not believe in a supernatural god. It's fine if you disagree with Dawkins, but to call him dishonest is quite unfair.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
He is a brilliant biologist, no doubt. But outside of that he seems to be too eager to flaunt they faulty notion that science disproves God. He also made himself look like a pompous ******* with his videos of him reading his hate-mail, especially because some of the messages were not hateful at all.
jarofthoughts
Empirical Curmudgeon
Do you have a source confirming that Dawkins has claimed that science disproves god?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I have read a book review he wrote (the book itself was about some astrophysics theory) in which he mentioned it. But the most current I am finding is he prefers to call himself Agnostic. Perhaps it was my misunderstanding of the term "God."
gnostic
The Lost One
paarsurrey said:
I don't know much about Dawkins, nor I've read any of his works.
But as far as I know, he is a biologist, has his MA and PhD in his chosen fields, and he is a professor, therefore he is indeed a scientist.
Do you really doubt his qualifications and experiences?
Like I've said, I haven't read his books. But according to many here, who have read his works, he was an excellent scientist, and that he explained evolutionary biology quite well. And since I have not read his books, so I can't judge him if he is a good scientist or not.
Have you read Dawkins' books? If not, then how can you judge if he is good scientist or not?
If you doubt it, then it is your bigotry and ignorance speaking.
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jarofthoughts
Empirical Curmudgeon
I'm asking because he has mentioned several times in interviews and articles, as well as his own book 'The God Delusion', that from a scientific point of view we cannot exclude the existence of a god with 100% certainty, which would be required if it was 'proven'.
In his book he introduces a scale from 1 to 7 where 1 would be absolute certainty that there is a god and 7 being absolute certainty that there isn't.
He usually rates himself as a 6 or 6.9.
Granted, we also do not know with 100% certainty that anything does not exist, considering that proving a negative is logically impossible, which means that we cannot know with 100% certainty that there are no faeries or unicorns either.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
This is what he says....(forward to about 1 minute in)
[youtube]bSrSwRpBdHk[/youtube]
There's Probably No God! - Richard Dawkins, Ariane Sherine, And The Atheist Bus Ad Campaign - YouTube
What makes reading your hate mail pompous? Is reading your hate mail a crime because what I've read and heard him read was really hateful stuff...
See here;
The Ugly - Page 1 - RichardDawkins.net
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I've seen the hate mail videos and I'm not seeing what you're seeing.....
Their bible....
Luke 6:22-23 (in part)
Happy are you when people hate you, reject you, insult you, and say that you are evil..........Be glad when that happens and dance for joy.......
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
You must not have read the same book. He's pandering to those he respects. "Oh, YOUR God is OK... I just hate THEIR God." Again, the question has to be "Why?" He's being dishonest and trying to justify his bigotry. Nothing more.
Oh, it's fine for Dawkins to castigate theists for having the same amount of faith he has, but "unfair" for me to expose his dishonesty? Cry me a river! It would be easier to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster than to accept his petulant attempt to semantically insulate people he happens to respect.
You're deifying this man and refusing to critically evaluate what he's actually said. So far he's done nothing but try to demonstrate his intellectual superiority for embracing atheism and he's using Einstein in the process. It's nothing but a fail. Sorry if this shakes your faith in him, but it's true. There's something intrinsically wrong when you are reduced to proving your position by assassinating the integrity of others. It's like watching a religious version of the Swift Boat Veterans and just as inappropriate.