1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Is premarital sex moral or immoral?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by ZooGirl02, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    4,394
    Ratings:
    +1,323
    Religion:
    LDS (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints)
    Whether or not premarital sex is 'moral,' depends entirely upon the culture one is living in. "Moral" is a cultural/religious choice.

    Premarital sex, however, is medically, scientifically and emotionally STUPID.

    Why are there STD's?

    Because people fool around with folks other than their spouses.

    Consider this:

    If one generation...just ONE generation...of humans would remain celibate until marriage and chaste (being true to one's spouse) afterwards, STD's would simply be eliminated, almost completely. Two generations which do this would eliminate all STD's completely...not that there would be many, if any, left to eliminate. It would also lessen the demand for abortion, especially 'abortion for the sake of convenience.' It would probably eliminate 70 to 80 % of that demand.

    And do NOT tell me that this can't be done. I did it. I know many people who have....and y'know what? They have lived happy, fulfilled lives. Nobody went mad. Nobody died of frustration. They all, pretty much, had good, solid, sexual lives with someone they loved.

    And yes, this goes for gays, too, same principle.

    Now my belief system says that premarital sex is immoral...but that's for those who belong to my belief system and share my values. Not everybody does. In fact, there aren't all that many of us; about as many, actually, as there are Jews in the world. Not a lot.

    So my moral values don't apply to everybody.

    The SCIENCE, however, does. Premarital sex is iffy. Dangerous physically and emotionally. As in, really, really dumb.
     
  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    14,391
    Ratings:
    +8,095
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    That old chestnut? Seriously.....who is the creator of science? Hint: it isn't humans.

    One merely needs to know the difference between what science "knows" and what science "assumes" to know.

    Who gave humans the intelligence to discover all the things that science studies?

    If God had not created the world, what would science study? Did science give us a brain?...the ability to analyze data.....to figure things out by using evidence to come to valid conclusions?

    No one bashes true and provable science......but we have to be able to distinguish between facts and suggestion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    32,299
    Ratings:
    +13,002
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    The Roman Catholic concept of reproduction invokes traditions which are a path to understanding the past but are not necessarily reflective of absolute moral good, and they do not encrypt all knowledge within themselves.

    The first objection I have is that these statutes were put into place without modern understanding of the physical process of reproduction. That is, they were invoked without full available knowledge. It was thought that seed could be wasted and possibly that it worsened over time. Both of these we know today to be false. Wasting seed does not harm offspring.

    The second objection I have is that the position on marriage is extreme. No divorce is allowed. Marriage can easily become a detriment to the adults and sometimes to the children. When that happens the marriage is already broken, but the RC position does not allow that condition to be recognized and remedied. That's a problem not something to be persistent about. Remember this that the RC's extreme position is an innovation, not something itself traditional. As with reproduction there is new knowledge, and the RC ought to be right on top of that, pronto. Why isn't it?

    My third objection is that I partly agree, but because of the extreme positions on divorce it is unwise to restrict premarital sex so strongly. It creates a situation in which those with troubles in their marriage are shamed by the community. That's not a good approach for a community to take, because nobody can know ahead of time what their partner will do. What you ought to do is encourage people to be honest when they are having trouble, so they can get help. When the man will no longer put up with his wife, then the church should recognize the marriage is broken. If the woman runs off, then that is also a broken marriage. How can it say that its position is traditional or wise? The marriage is broken but the church is not able to comprehend it. Then there must be efforts to circumvent some of the damage, and that's what people are being forced to do, to try and limit the damage.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. ZooGirl02

    ZooGirl02 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,786
    Ratings:
    +168
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Correlation doesn't equal causation though. Have studies actually been done which prove that abstinence-only education actually causes such problems or do we simply know that the problems are correlated?
     
  5. ZooGirl02

    ZooGirl02 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,786
    Ratings:
    +168
    Religion:
    Catholic
    It's actually not an absolute prohibition of divorce. Check out this paragraph from the Catechism of the Catholic Church about divorce:

    2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.


    If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

    Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 6
     
  6. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    75,270
    Ratings:
    +30,231
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    It's immoral that we still have a term and concept for "premarital sex."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. ZooGirl02

    ZooGirl02 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,786
    Ratings:
    +168
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Why?
     
  8. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    75,270
    Ratings:
    +30,231
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    Places that teach real and proper sex ed do not have nearly as high rates of teen pregnancy. Plus, the abstinence only teaches blatant lies about contraceptive use and effectiveness, and promote vulgar lies about a woman's sexuality and organs.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    75,270
    Ratings:
    +30,231
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    Because it implies it is somehow different, and that sex within marriage is supposed to somehow be better. That somehow, of course, being the belief that "premarital" sex is "immoral." It's not, and it's no one's business what consenting adults do in privacy.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

    Joined:
    May 19, 2019
    Messages:
    3,605
    Ratings:
    +1,745
    Religion:
    Non-realist
    I think sex caused people
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

    Joined:
    May 19, 2019
    Messages:
    3,605
    Ratings:
    +1,745
    Religion:
    Non-realist
    What does "marital" mean anyway? If two people are in love and committed to each other doesn't that constitute a union of two people? Even though I personally find divorce an ugly thing, who am I to judge when people no longer wish to be a couple? And for real, I am no one to judge when it comes to serial monogamy. I am a damn sinner in that regard, Like a lot. Maybe too many times. I do have some regrets though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    32,299
    Ratings:
    +13,002
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    That does not address the problems, so it justifies premarital experimentation not fully but seriously. It makes marriage very frightening, and then makes it into a prison for some. Marriage is great for kids, but if the marriage goes bad sometimes they are better off with a divorce. The RC can pivot and fix this, too. It can find a way, issue new Christian names or something. If it fixes this, allowing divorce without a bunch of shame dumped on the bride; then its restriction against premarital sex will make more sense.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    3,276
    Ratings:
    +1,566
    Religion:
    My Own
    Protected or unprotected?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28,053
    Ratings:
    +11,922
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Unlike many people, as an agnostic I'm free of the stifling demands and commands of religion, and can freely think for myself without having to first check with the gate keeper. Personally, I believe that purposely killing healthy children is immoral, and if I want to condemn the Christian god for killing children as immoral I don't have to think twice about it. How many Christians here dare do the same? Do you, dear Christian, dare condemn god as immoral for doing so? Oh, I know the standard cop out: "If god does it it has to be moral," which has to go hand-in-hand with owning slaves being moral because god condons it

    So we have

    Killing healthy children is good...........when god does it
    Owning slaves must be good.............because god condons it
    How about evil. Is evil good or bad? Well:

    Evil has to be good.............................because god creates it
    But honestly Good Christian out there in RF land where does your moral compass point?

    Is killing healthy children a good thing?
    Is owning slaves a good thing?
    Is evil a good thing?


    .

     
    #34 Skwim, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
  15. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,269
    Ratings:
    +3,178
    Religion:
    It exists
    I condemn a god, christian's, muslims, atheist, i.e anyone who kills a healthy baby(which includes abortions) or supports slavery.
    IMO in abortion is the killing of healthy babies. Yeah I know people will claim it's about rights and will claim is it really considered a baby.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    8,730
    Ratings:
    +5,361
    Religion:
    Skeptical
    With Roman Catholics, if I recall aright, the custom is said to be, copulation that is not hetero, and vaginal, and free of any kind of contraception, and with a person to whom one is married, is absolutely forbidden.

    I think this kind of diktat rulemaking, however traditional, however supported by this or that holy authority, misses the moral point.

    For me, considerations of honesty (whence trust), informed consent, and responsibility for one's actions are what's important in sexual relations of any kind.

    Sometimes these will overlap with the RC rules, very often (not least with the no-contraception rule) they won't.

    But in the end, the only person who can answer your question is you.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    26,622
    Ratings:
    +7,755
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Baha'is believe essentially what Catholics believe about premarital sex:

    'The Bahá'í Faith recognizes the value of the sex impulse, but condemns its illegitimate and improper expressions such as free love, companionate marriage and others, all of which it considers positively harmful to man and to the society in which he lives. The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá'ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.'

    In response to another letter enquiring if there were any legitimate way in which a person could express the sex instinct if, for some reason, he were unable to marry or if outer circumstances such as economic factors were to cause him to delay marriage, the Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:

    'Concerning your question whether there are any legitimate forms of expression of the sex instinct outside of marriage: According to the Bahá'í Teachings no sexual act can be considered lawful unless performed between lawfully married persons. Outside of marital life there can be no lawful or healthy use of the sex impulse…….

    In another letter on the Guardian's behalf, also to an individual believer, the secretary writes:

    'Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis of sex...'

    This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of present-day society.
    Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File, pp. 364-365

    I consider it immoral if one is a Baha'i, because it violates the Baha'i Laws, but I do not judge other people who are not Baha'is because they are not held to the same standard. Of course, I think society would be greatly improved if people followed the Bahai standard, but that is way off into the future.

    It is good to see a Christian who takes the Bible seriously, not all do.

    Baha'is do not believe that premarital sex will land anyone in hell. We believe that hell is distance from God so people who reject God make their own hell. God does not send anyone to hell. They send themselves by their own choices.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    26,622
    Ratings:
    +7,755
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    God knows best, doesn't He?
    Who are we to question God?
    It is really as simple as that. :D
     
  19. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,269
    Ratings:
    +3,178
    Religion:
    It exists
    IMO it's fun, passes time, it can be creative, etc.
    If it's such a sin why are millions of christians on the pill? Well of course to have premarital sex and avoid getting pregnant.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    26,622
    Ratings:
    +7,755
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Just because Christians break the Laws of God does not make it right.
    Everyone wants what they want, that's the essential problem in society, selfishness.
    I believe that most Christians have drifted away from what Jesus taught in favor of doctrines that say they are saved and forgiven.

    Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
     
Loading...