Is multi-culturalism dangerous?

[Father Heathen]

Yeah, it's out of hand when things like this are ignored. I was shocked and appalled at it. I thought they were Muslim, too.

Mind you, a guy with a beard wearing typical South Asian Islamic clothing, including a kufi, and a woman in a niqab, you know... it's an excusable assumption.

But people shouldn't feel pressured to adopt another culture strictly out of fear, especially not within their own homeland.

 

[Breathe]

But people shouldn't feel pressured to adopt another culture strictly out of fear, especially not within their own homeland.

And hometown; he was a born 'n bred local.

And I completely agree with you. Depressing stuff.

 

[Father Heathen]

I would say thats the reality of it. But shouldn't be a discouragement to emphasise tolerance.

Tolerance only works as a two-way street.

 

[Father Heathen]

And hometown; he was a born 'n bred local.

And I completely agree with you. Depressing stuff.

What aspects do you believe lead so many European societies to allow themselves to be so easily walked upon?

 

[Roadrider]

As the world turns... we can debate and get our panties all knotted up in a wad all we want on the Internet but in the end it changes nothing and everyone does or should know that it means nothing in the grand scheme of things

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah, that's a good point. I've found most people where I live are usually ok with different races, but not so good with different culture.

I know that people get irritable, as well, when things are attempted to be pushed upon them, such as the "encouragement" not to eat in offices during Ramadan out of respect for Muslims staff and clients, which some places have tried in the past.

Something that recently annoyed me was when I had to talk to the police about witnessing an assault, it was a South Asian lady. I asked if she shook hands, and she replied, "Not with white people", (no word of a lie!) so I said I'll speak to someone else, then. The other police offer said me talking to him (as he was white) instead of her was "kind of racist of me", to which I replied that she was racist for what she said, and I don't plan on speaking to racists if I can help it.

It does seem that, whenever you hear squeals of racism, there is almost always an underlying double-standard.

 

[Father Heathen]

As the world turns... we can debate and get our panties all knotted up in a wad all we want on the Internet but in the end it changes nothing and everyone does or should know that it means nothing in the grand scheme of things

That be be said of 99% of the content here, so why bother with RF then?

 

[Kerr]

As the world turns... we can debate and get our panties all knotted up in a wad all we want on the Internet but in the end it changes nothing and everyone does or should know that it means nothing in the grande scheme of things

There is little we do that actually means something in the grand scheme of things. That doesnt mean we shouldnt do it.

EDIT:

Come to think of it, if it was not for this thread I wouldnt know of the "Sharia zones" thing. And I wouldnt have known as much about a problem in my own country (I really need to watch more news). Maybe thats not the grand scheme of things but for me it definately counts for something .

 

[Roadrider]

I'd say the old adage "evil exists because good men do nothing" should be tempered with Nietzsches saying " be careful in your search for monsters lest you become one" or something to that effect
In the end the Andras working is in full effect and the sunwheel keeps turning

 

[Breathe]

What aspects do you believe lead so many European societies to allow themselves to be so easily walked upon?

European society heavily marginalizes racism, racists, nationalists, and similar things to the point where they're not just frowned upon, but cause hassle. Being called a racist hurts deeply people's feelings, and can cause people to distance themselves from others; mere accusations of it can lead to suspension, job loss, and even loss of friends.

Anti-racist behaviour is strangely tolerated; for example, on a bus route near where I used to live, the graffiti "KILL ALL THE BNP SUPPORTERS THEY ARE SCUM" was spraypainted to the wall of a bridge, visible to all buses which go that way; it's been there over 10 years. When I last got on a bus and went that way, last year, it was still there. To this day, no member of the police can support the BNP, and if you're found out, your job is gone. While I definitely understand this and I do sympathise with it... the BNP, like them or loathe them, are a legally recognised political party. Unfortunately. As much as I loathe BNP, I loathe restricting freedom of association to legal political parties more.

There is also a somewhat widespread idea that one simply can't be racist to the natives, even if ethnic minority groups are in the majority.

I speak from experience: in my class in college, there were almost 40 people. There were about 7 non-Asians (only one of whom in our class was black, who changed classes). We were frequently called a 'gora kutta' or 'gori kutti' (a "white dog", or "white *****" in Hindi-Urdu/Punjabi), and some other ones which include 'dirty white ********', 'mother-******* white untouchables', and so on. When we occasionally complained, teachers would tell us to stop being stupid, sit down, and shut up, even when it was explained that we knew what it meant, we were told to stop making a scene and not to come to the teacher complaining of vulgar trivialities. When a few of the white students tried to push it further, they were warned for being racist.

So, some groups and people will use cries of racism to get their own way. Racism is frequently used as a way of silencing opposition and keeping people in line and getting them to shut up. It can be used very loosely. People will claim racism if, for example, you weren't attracted to black people. To me, this makes about as much sense as someone being considered homophobic because they're not attracted to men. It also happens if you say you disagree with sharia law, or even reject certain cultural elements of a particular group.

 

[Roadrider]

The primal will always win

 

[Aquitaine]

EDL? Heh.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

One thing that makes me laugh about the EDL, is that they generally support the banning of the face-veil, yet they parade about in custom designed EDL face masks and balaclavas during demonstrations. :biglaugh:

 

[Sakeenah]

I just read this article which was posted on another thread:

You are now entering Sharia law Britain: As Islamic extremists declare a Sharia law zone in a London suburb, there are worrying social and moral implications | Mail Online

It's about suburbs in Britain with large Muslim populations putting up signs like 'You are entering a shariah controlled zone' and turning those suburbs into 'Islamic emirates' (that's the plan, anyway).

Does this mean that wherever large groups of Muslims settle, they will usurp the local authority and institute their own laws? Do we see any other cultures or religious groups do this?

I read this article a few days after someone shared this doco with me:
[youtube]SgKMI1wV0ps[/youtube]
My Hometown Fanatics: Stacey Dooley Investigates (Muslim Extremists - EDL - Luton) - YouTube

I haven't watched it all yet - only a short clip. I want to watch it all to make sure I've got all the information.

Is it truly about fanatics as opposed to regular Muslims?

Apologies if I've caused any offence. I'm all for multiculturalism, I love variety and diversity. I live in a very multicultural suburb and I'd like to think I'm not racist or discriminatory. I just get a bit nervous when I see this sort of thing.

I watched this documentary..and I think this is about fanatics and not really about regular Muslims. I consider myself a orthodox Muslim (wear face veil,pray,fast etc.) But I hate the ignorance of groups like al muhajiruun. Because they are spreading a message of hate. In Islam we aren't allowed to impose shariah law in a non muslim country, we should respect the laws of the country we are in. EDL and Al muhaajiruun have a lot in common.

 

[Father Heathen]

European society heavily marginalizes racism, racists, nationalists, and similar things to the point where they're not just frowned upon, but cause hassle. Being called a racist hurts deeply people's feelings, and can cause people to distance themselves from others; mere accusations of it can lead to suspension, job loss, and even loss of friends.

Anti-racist behaviour is strangely tolerated; for example, on a bus route near where I used to live, the graffiti "KILL ALL THE BNP SUPPORTERS THEY ARE SCUM" was spraypainted to the wall of a bridge, visible to all buses which go that way; it's been there over 10 years. When I last got on a bus and went that way, last year, it was still there. To this day, no member of the police can support the BNP, and if you're found out, your job is gone. While I definitely understand this and I do sympathise with it... the BNP, like them or loathe them, are a legally recognised political party. Unfortunately. As much as I loathe BNP, I loathe restricting freedom of association to legal political parties more.

There is also a somewhat widespread idea that one simply can't be racist to the natives, even if ethnic minority groups are in the majority.

I speak from experience: in my class in college, there were almost 40 people. There were about 7 non-Asians (only one of whom in our class was black, who changed classes). We were frequently called a 'gora kutta' or 'gori kutti' (a "white dog", or "white *****" in Hindi-Urdu/Punjabi), and some other ones which include 'dirty white ********', 'mother-******* white untouchables', and so on. When we occasionally complained, teachers would tell us to stop being stupid, sit down, and shut up, even when it was explained that we knew what it meant, we were told to stop making a scene and not to come to the teacher complaining of vulgar trivialities. When a few of the white students tried to push it further, they were warned for being racist.

So, some groups and people will use cries of racism to get their own way. Racism is frequently used as a way of silencing opposition and keeping people in line and getting them to shut up. It can be used very loosely. People will claim racism if, for example, you weren't attracted to black people. To me, this makes about as much sense as someone being considered homophobic because they're not attracted to men. It also happens if you say you disagree with sharia law, or even reject certain cultural elements of a particular group.

But still, how did so many European societies get to be so submissive and cowardly? Why are they so willing to surrender so much for nothing in return?

 

[Breathe]

One thing that makes me laugh about the EDL, is that they generally support the banning of the face-veil, yet they parade about in custom designed EDL face masks and balaclavas during demonstrations. :biglaugh:

So much for the 'one law for everyone' they love to parrot on about, eh?

But still, how did so many European societies get to be so submissive and cowardly? Why are they so willing to surrender so much for nothing in return?

I honestly don't know. I really wish I did.

 

[LuisDantas]

But still, how did so many European societies get to be so submissive and cowardly? Why are they so willing to surrender so much for nothing in return?

It is not really that different from any other political conflict. Dealing with extremism is a difficult challenge, and sometimes it is mishandled by excessive passivity and acceptance.

 

[xkatz]

It is not really that different from any other political conflict. Dealing with extremism is a difficult challenge, and sometimes it is mishandled by excessive passivity and acceptance.

And the fact that in post-WW2 Europe, the fear of intolerance and bigotry is extreme.

 

[Father Heathen]

And the fact that in post-WW2 Europe, the fear of intolerance and bigotry is extreme.

And now that hey find themselves on the receiving end of that intolerance and bigotry, they lack the spine to stand up against it, at the expence of their own culture and liberty.

 

[darkendless]

And now that hey find themselves on the receiving end of that intolerance and bigotry, they lack the spine to stand up against it, at the expence of their own culture and liberty.

If they do they're labelled racist bigots.

Look at any city that tries to ban Minarets.

 

[Roadrider]

EDL - Tommy Robinson on the brutal murder of a British soldier in London (Full Version) - YouTube