Is living a gay/lesbian lifestyle a problem with God?

[Autodidact]

of course i try but I cannot, so ultimately I accept that not doing these things is wrong but i fail to keep them.

Just like I accept that homosexuality is wrong. I believe i can only state something is wrong as it says it in the bibles moral law, however i cannot condem and reject people who fail as well, I can merely state that it is wrong. Its why i can still love and accept others with a different sexual orientation while still disagreeing with what they do.

so what is your response?

I'd say watch out for the log in your own eye then.

Oh, and homosexuality is not a sin.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

tarsan I suggest you leave Anglicanism and go join a more fundamentalist church that suits your fancies.

 

[Autodidact]

its not even housed on reason either its a desire to be accpeted, i have had debates with other christians on this, there is no reason other than "they dont like it" and we dont ahve to like it for it to be true, cause lets face it I dont like the idea of homosexuality being wrong, but i dont think i can just alagorise something in the bible because my culture at this point in time says its ok.

Please explain your reasoning for why lesbianism is a sin, despite God never naming it as one.

 

[Autodidact]

really? well then you have a very limited view of what i do and do not like, the Anglican church has alot i dont agree with biblically this is just one, and the "church" generally doesnt.

and dont tell me how i feel about something cause this is the kind of stuff i really want to be proved wrong about. not that Im sure a person like you would care considering ive probably been viewed as a bigot as soon as I spoke up, I just take solice in the face that my gay friends dont kind me one, even though ive said i dont agree but still love them as much as i love my striaght friends.

heck i even feel bad seperating them like that but hey.

Then why do you keep claiming that lesbianism is a sin when it's not even named? Meanwhile you should be absolutely railing against divorce and remarriage, yet I've never seen you make a single post condemning it. Odd.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well gee tarsan if there was something about you, you couldn't change, and other Christians treated you badly for it, you'd want to be accepted too. Gays have the right to be accepted in the Church, they have the right to be supported by a loving family like every other Christian.

 

[tarasan]

That is the question. You are assuming your conclusion. Why on earth should the gender of whom you love be a moral matter? Did not Christ come to teach us that morality is loving each other and God? You can tell it's part of the ancient purity code, because it's found in Leviticus, right in and among all those other rules about what to eat and what to wear. Those are the rules Christ throws out the window. It's no longer about what you eat or what kind of sex you have--it's about loving each other and God. That's the whole point of Jesus.

And, as I keep saying and no one cares, because it does not involve men, which is all that matters to you, even the old purity codes never included lesbianism. Lesbianism was always permitted. Period.

actually no teh puirty laws are a totally different thing, that was the thing that made u unclean they werent sinful and they had no punishments. saying homosexuality was a sin is found in alot more places than leviticus mate or else that statement would probably stick.

No the whole point of Jesus was to reestablish the connection between us and God, when that connection was riestablished there was no reason for certian laws of purity or the laws that set the jews appart but the moral laws were still in place just read the NT, Paul dams sexual sin.

and no homosexuality in the bible encompases lesbiens as well, go to any scholar.

 

[tarasan]

Well gee tarsan if there was something about you, you couldn't change, and other Christians treated you badly for it, you'd want to be accepted too. Gays have the right to be accepted in the Church, they have the right to be supported by a loving family like every other Christian.

Im not denying them the right to enter the church! when has this subject ever been about them coming into the faith!!
the statement was is homosexuality wrong and the answer is yes, i never once made any claim as to what that entailed your putting words right into my mouth!

of course they need to be loved i love and support my gay friends too!!

your desire to see me as a bigot really has shown how resumuptuious of me you are.

 

[tarasan]

Then why do you keep claiming that lesbianism is a sin when it's not even named? Meanwhile you should be absolutely railing against divorce and remarriage, yet I've never seen you make a single post condemning it. Odd.

homosexuality is named and read paul about this he specifically sights lesbiens in one of his letters!!!

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Paul wasn't talking about what you think. I've explained that about 20 times in this thread. Shall I explain it again?

 

[tarasan]

Paul wasn't talking about what you think. I've explained that about 20 times in this thread. Shall I explain it again?

fair enough you can.....

 

[Autodidact]

actually no teh puirty laws are a totally different thing, that was the thing that made u unclean they werent sinful and they had no punishments. saying homosexuality was a sin is found in alot more places than leviticus mate or else that statement would probably stick.

Such as?

No the whole point of Jesus was to reestablish the connection between us and God, when that connection was riestablished there was no reason for certian laws of purity or the laws that set the jews appart but the moral laws were still in place just read the NT, Paul dams sexual sin.

Yes, but homosexuality is not sexual sin, that's my point. It's part of the Leviticus purity code. Read it.

and no homosexuality in the bible encompases lesbiens as well, go to any scholar.

You couldn't be more wrong, that's just silly. Just read the passages, there's no way on earth to make them apply to women. " 22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. " I mean, you cannot twist that to apply to women, it just makes no sense.

Read it in context with the next passage:

23 " 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. "

You see the whole chapter is directed to men, that's how it's written. When it applies to women, it shifts into the third person and says, "A woman must not..."

For heaven's sake, just read it.

 

[Mr Cheese]

actually no teh puirty laws are a totally different thing, that was the thing that made u unclean they werent sinful and they had no punishments. saying homosexuality was a sin is found in alot more places than leviticus mate or else that statement would probably stick.

No the whole point of Jesus was to reestablish the connection between us and God, when that connection was riestablished there was no reason for certian laws of purity or the laws that set the jews appart but the moral laws were still in place just read the NT, Paul dams sexual sin.

and no homosexuality in the bible encompases lesbiens as well, go to any scholar.

so, how do you deal with the female and gay priests of the Anglican church?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Tarsan it says the women changed the natural use of women into that which is against nature. If being with the same sex isn't against someone's nature, if they're gay, this can't apply to them. It can only apply to people who are attracted to men sexually, and choose to be lesbians. It says then men changed the use into that which is against nature. What if homosexuality isn't against some men's nature, men who are really gay? There's no way these verses can apply in that situation. Furthermore, the chapter says they were handed over to these things because of idolotry. It says they served the created rather then the creator, so God turned them over. How does this explain a Christian being gay or lesbian, who worships God?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

See tarsan, verses can be read more then one way, the way the predjudiced mind wants to read it.

 

[tarasan]

Such as?

Yes, but homosexuality is not sexual sin, that's my point. It's part of the Leviticus purity code. Read it.

You couldn't be more wrong, that's just silly. Just read the passages, there's no way on earth to make them apply to women. " 22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. " I mean, you cannot twist that to apply to women, it just makes no sense.

Read it in context with the next passage:

23 " 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. "

You see the whole chapter is directed to men, that's how it's written. When it applies to women, it shifts into the third person and says, "A woman must not..."

For heaven's sake, just read it.

your forgetting romans paul was a pharisee he was totally against lesbienism that is why its a mistake to just single out one book.

as for leviticus no they arnt purity laws im sorry it just isnt the case, you are very very wrong.

purity laws were never met with punishment merely cleansing thence to make themselves clean, if homosexuality was in this branch that is what they would have to do.

 

[tarasan]

so, how do you deal with the female and gay priests of the Anglican church?

i dont know, I would be enclined to believe they are there for a reason im not saying that homosexuals shouldnt be a part of the church merely that homosexuality isnt wrong, why isnt anyone getting this?

 

[tarasan]

Tarsan it says the women changed the natural use of women into that which is against nature. If being with the same sex isn't against someone's nature, if they're gay, this can't apply to them. It can only apply to people who are attracted to men sexually, and choose to be lesbians. It says then men changed the use into that which is against nature. What if homosexuality isn't against some men's nature, men who are really gay? There's no way these verses can apply in that situation. Furthermore, the chapter says they were handed over to these things because of idolotry. It says they served the created rather then the creator, so God turned them over. How does this explain a Christian being gay or lesbian, who worships God?

let me make a direct quote from romans

[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. [/FONT]the bible

its says good gave them over to their lusts because they would worship or glorify him, it talks aobut sinful desires, shameful lusts...

this is why i can its far to explicit mate far too explicit.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Like I said how can this apply to Gay and Lesbian Christians who worship God, and their only sin apparently was being born that way? They cannot help who they are.

 

[tarasan]

Like I said how can this apply to Gay and Lesbian Christians who worship God, and their only sin apparently was being born that way? They cannot help who they are.

actually that means everyone, Christianity teaches that we all reject God, and it is with this train of thought that Paul is using when he states this.

Im not saying anything other than it was wrong, the world was twisted by sin, and IM NOT CONDONING GAY HATING!!!!

none of you seem to be getting that hating someone due to adultery homosexuality and sleeping around is not what im suggesting we have to love everyone EVERYONE!! and i will not be labeled as some gay hater who tryied to hyjak gay pride parades understand?

i cannot believe the immaturity of this discussion and the tone used against me even when i state my position again and again, its immature.

 

[Autodidact]

your forgetting romans paul was a pharisee he was totally against lesbienism that is why its a mistake to just single out one book.

as for leviticus no they arnt purity laws im sorry it just isnt the case, you are very very wrong.

purity laws were never met with punishment merely cleansing thence to make themselves clean, if homosexuality was in this branch that is what they would have to do.

No, I'm not forgetting Romans, I've mentioned it several times. As I keep saying, YHWH knows very well how to prohibit things. He's not shy. "Thou shalt not..." He doesn't do that. Romans is a narrative. Read it. These people turned away from God, and he punished them by making them have unnatural sex. For most people, homosexual sex would be unnatural, so Paul sees that as a punishment.

All of the sex laws are in Leviticus, cheek by jowl with the food rules and all of that. They are classic primitive taboos to separate one tribe from another by forbidding certain foods and other practices, in this case, sex. It says so right in them. For heaven's sake take a moment and read them. 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled."