@Tranquil_Servant ,
Actually, I admit that I'm not that versed in Greek, or it's sentence structure; and regarding the vocative and nominative usages, they don't really consistently provide conclusive proofs, by themselves. However, according to John, Thomas said, "the lord of me andthe god of me".
(All punctuation and capitalization have to be added. So, word structure is paramount to understanding the text.)
By writing it this way -- using two definite articles (the) before each of the two nouns (lord, & god) -- all is important to understand.....
Professor C. F. D. Moule....(C. F. D. Moule - Wikipedia)
....wrote, "In John 20:28Ho kýrios mou kai ho theós mou [that is, My Lord and my God], it is to be noted that a substantive [like God] in the Nominative case used in a vocative sense [in address to Jesus] and followed by a possessive [of me] could not be anarthrous [that is, without the definite article the] . . . ; the article [the] before theós may, therefore, not be significant. . . . the use of the article [the] with a virtual Vocative (compare John 20:28 referred to above, and 1 Peter 2:18, Colossians 3:18ff.) may also be due to Semitic idiom.”—Pages 116, 117, of An Idiom-Book of New Testament Greek, by C. F. D. Moule, Professor of Divinity in the University of Cambridge, 1953 edition, England. (Bold type mine)
IOW, this does not support that Thomas had a "Jesus-is-God" view.
Consider the context....
Less than two weeks previously Thomas had heard Jesus pray to his heavenly Father and say: “This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3, AV) On the fourth day after that prayer, or on his day of resurrection, Jesus sent a special message to Thomas and the other disciples by means of Mary Magdalene. “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.” (John 20:17- 18, AV) So from Jesus’ prayer and from this message through Mary Magdalene, Thomas knew who his own God was. His God was not Jesus Christ, but his God was the God of Jesus Christ. Also his Father was the Father of Jesus Christ. Thus Thomas knew that Jesus had a God whom he worshiped, namely, his heavenly Father.
How, then, could Thomas in an ecstasy of joy at seeing the resurrected Jesus for the first time burst out with an exclamation and speak to Jesus himself as being the one and only living, true God, the God whose name is Jehovah? How could Thomas, by what he spoke, mean that Jesus was himself “the only true God” or that Jesus was God in the Second Person of a Trinity? In view of what Thomas had heard from Jesus and had been told by Jesus, how can we read such a meaning into Thomas’ words: “My Lord and my God”?
The well-known theologian, Albert Barnes Albert Barnes (theologian) - Wikipedia....wrote this concerning John 20:28 John 20:28 (KJV) - Barnes' Notes
My Lord and my God - In this passage the name God is expressly given to Christ, in his own presence and by one of his own apostles. This declaration has been considered as a clear proof of the divinity of Christ, for the following reasons:
1. There is no evidence that this was a mere expression, as some have supposed, of surprise or astonishment.
2. The language was addressed to Jesus himself - "Thomas ...said unto him."
3. The Saviour did not reprove him or check him as using any improper language. If he had not been divine, it is impossible to reconcile it with his honesty that he did not rebuke the disciple. No pious man would have allowed such language to be addressed to him. Compare Acts 14:13-15; Revelation 22:8-9.
4. The Saviour proceeds immediately to commend Thomas for believing; but what was the evidence of his believing? It was this declaration, and this only. If this was a mere exclamation of surprise, what proof was it that Thomas believed? Before this he doubted. Now he believed, and gave utterance to his belief, that Jesus was his Lord and his God.
5. If this was not the meaning of Thomas, then his exclamation was a mere act of profaneness, and the Saviour would not have commended him for taking the name of the Lord his God in vain. The passage proves, therefore, that it is proper to apply to Christ the name Lord and God, and thus accords with what John affirmed in John 1:1, and which is established throughout this gospel.
Strongs rendering from the Greek..... "For in Him all G3956 the fullness G4138 of Deity G2320 dwells G2730 in bodily G4985 form, G4985"
"Deity" here is "theotēs" which is used only once in the NT. Trinitarians will happily translate it to accommodate the belief that Jesus is God, but Jesus was a "divine mighty one", making him "a god" in the Greek understanding of the word.....not "the God" (ho theos) however.
God's spirit produced him, and God's spirit empowered him after his baptism. Before that he was just plain Jesus, the Carpenter's son. If he was God incarnate, then why is there no mention of his supernatural abilities prior to his baptism? His own siblings did not accept him until after his death and resurrection. He was just their older brother, nothing special about him before his anointing with holy spirit.
It pays to use a concordance and a number of different translations because then you get to see which ones are more accurately translated from the original Greek or Hebrew, and which ones are more prone to show bias....especially with the trinity.
Stephen was a disciple of Jesus...his friend, Lord and teacher. Looking at his Master and knowing that Jesus promised to resurrect the dead, he was entrusting his future life to the one he was looking at. It was an appeal, not a prayer.
Jesus said we should direct all worship to "the LORD" (Yahweh)...who was also his God. (John 20:17)
Luke 4:5-8...."And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, 6 and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 And Jesus answered him, “It is written,
“You shall fear H3372the LORDH3068 your God; H430 you shall serve H5647 Him and cling H1692 to Him, and you shall swear H7650 by His name. H8034".
In quoting Deuteronomy 10:20 Jesus was showing that the LORD was Yahweh, as the Tetragrammaton appears in that verse in the Tanach......Jesus never once asked to be worshipped by anyone. He accepted "obeisance" (respectful honor)....and rightly so as the Son of God.
They had observed idol worship in Egypt. Aaron took the form of a familiar god and gave it the name of Yahweh, holding their own festival to the God who had liberated them from Egypt.
Exodus 32:21-24..... "And Moses said to Aaron: “What did this people do to you that you have brought a great sin upon them?” 22 Aaron replied: “Do not be enraged, my lord. You well know that the people are inclined to do evil. 23 So they said to me, ‘Make for us a god who will go ahead of us, for we do not know what has happened to this Moses, the man who led us up out of the land of Egypt.’ 24 So I said to them, ‘Whoever has any gold must take it off and give it to me.’ Then I threw it into the fire and out came this calf.” 25 Moses saw that the people were unrestrained, for Aaron had let them go unrestrained, so that they were a disgrace before their opposers. 26 Then Moses took his position in the gate of the camp and said: “Who is on Jehovah’s side? Come to me!” And all the Levites gathered around him"
Arron was weak in this instance and caved in to the will of the people. But he repented and showed that he was on Yahweh's side.
Paul used this situation as a word of caution to Christians when he wrote: “Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: ‘The people sat down to eat and drink, and they got up to have a good time.’” (1 Corinthians 10:7; Exodus 32:1-4)
Because the calf was a representation of the God who had delivered them.
Exodus 32:3-5.... "And all the people stripped themselves of the golden earrings that were on their ears and brought them to Aaron.
4He took [them] from their hand, fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made it into a molten calf, upon which they said: "These are your gods, O Israel, who have brought you up from the land of Egypt!"
5When Aaron saw [this], he built an altar in front of it, and Aaron proclaimed and said: "Tomorrow shall be a festival to the Lord." (Complete Tanach)
"gods" here is not in the plural of numbers because there was only one calf. It is in the plural to denote the majesty of Israel's one God. The "LORD" is Yahweh as seen in the Hebrew where the tetragrammaton is there in verse 5.
Of course the Israelites were influenced by their sojourn in Egypt, but on being released from slavery there, they agreed to abide by Yahweh's laws.
Exodus 32:7-8 "And the Lord said to Moses: "Go, descend, for your people that you have brought up from the land of Egypt have acted corruptly.
8They have quickly turned away from the path that I have commanded them; they have made themselves a molten calf! And they have prostrated themselves before it, slaughtered sacrifices to it, and said: 'These are your gods, O Israel, who have brought you up from the land of Egypt.' "
Again "gods" is plural but not numerically. In all of Genesis it refers to the singular God of Israel.
Psalm 115:4-8....
"Their idols are silver and gold, the handiwork of man. 5They have a mouth but they do not speak; they have eyes but they do not see. 6They have ears but they do not hear; they have a nose but they do not smell. 7Their hands-but they do not feel; their feet-but they do not walk; they do not murmur with their throat. זיְדֵיהֶ֚ם 8Like them shall be those who make them, all who trust in them." (Tanach)
Of course they are representatives of people's gods....
As far as the idols not being the gods themselves....?
Perhaps you need to remind the folk who treat them as if they were real. All forms of idolatry are abhorrent to God.
Actually, he didn't.
From the Tanach.....Exodus 3:13-15.... "And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God (YAHWEH) of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation."
This was before God rescued his people. His name does not mean "I Am"....it never did. In the Hebrew text again God's name is clearly visible. In English the divine name is missing, substituted with a title, (The Lord God) but in the Hebrew the tetragrammaton is there.
Asking the name was not like how people today ask a name. Back then asking the name was the same as asking what is this God like? Who is he, what is he? That kinda thing. So, they knew the difference.
Yahweh himself revealed the meaning of his name. "I Will Be What I Will Be". This is a declaration of God's intentions......what he will be in order to fulfill his purpose.
Strongs rendering from the Greek..... "For in Him all G3956 the fullness G4138 of Deity G2320 dwells G2730 in bodily G4985 form, G4985"
"Deity" here is "theotēs" which is used only once in the NT. Trinitarians will happily translate it to accommodate the belief that Jesus is God, but Jesus was a "divine mighty one", making him "a god" in the Greek understanding of the word.....not "the God" (ho theos) however.
Im not saying Jesus flesh and bones is God. Im saying the fullness of God is expressed through Jesus.
God's spirit produced him, and God's spirit empowered him after his baptism. Before that he was just plain Jesus, the Carpenter's son. If he was God incarnate, then why is there no mention of his supernatural abilities prior to his baptism?
Even after his supernatural abilities, some still did not accept him.
Also no mention dont mean it did not happen. Bible even says that if all the things Jesus did wer recorded, all the books would not contain it.
Stephen was a disciple of Jesus...his friend, Lord and teacher. Looking at his Master and knowing that Jesus promised to resurrect the dead, he was entrusting his future life to the one he was looking at. It was an appeal, not a prayer.
Jesus said we should direct all worship to "the LORD" (Yahweh)...who was also his God. (John 20:17)
Luke 4:5-8...."And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, 6 and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 And Jesus answered him, “It is written,
“You shall fear H3372the LORDH3068 your God; H430 you shall serve H5647 Him and cling H1692 to Him, and you shall swear H7650 by His name. H8034".
In quoting Deuteronomy 10:20 Jesus was showing that the LORD was Yahweh, as the Tetragrammaton appears in that verse in the Tanach......Jesus never once asked to be worshipped by anyone. He accepted "obeisance" (respectful honor)....and rightly so as the Son of God.
They had observed idol worship in Egypt. Aaron took the form of a familiar god and gave it the name of Yahweh, holding their own festival to the God who had liberated them from Egypt.
Exodus 32:21-24..... "And Moses said to Aaron: “What did this people do to you that you have brought a great sin upon them?” 22 Aaron replied: “Do not be enraged, my lord. You well know that the people are inclined to do evil. 23 So they said to me, ‘Make for us a god who will go ahead of us, for we do not know what has happened to this Moses, the man who led us up out of the land of Egypt.’ 24 So I said to them, ‘Whoever has any gold must take it off and give it to me.’ Then I threw it into the fire and out came this calf.” 25 Moses saw that the people were unrestrained, for Aaron had let them go unrestrained, so that they were a disgrace before their opposers. 26 Then Moses took his position in the gate of the camp and said: “Who is on Jehovah’s side? Come to me!” And all the Levites gathered around him"
Arron was weak in this instance and caved in to the will of the people. But he repented and showed that he was on Yahweh's side.
Paul used this situation as a word of caution to Christians when he wrote: “Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: ‘The people sat down to eat and drink, and they got up to have a good time.’” (1 Corinthians 10:7; Exodus 32:1-4)
how do you figure Aaron is refering to the idol as yahwah?
Exodus 32
7The LORD told Moses, “Quick! Go down the mountain! Your people whom you brought from the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves. 8How quickly they have turned away from the way I commanded them to live!
So, the people knew the calf was not yahwah. I think Aaron was refering to the actual yahwah when he mentioned the festival.
4. The Saviour proceeds immediately to commend Thomas for believing; but what was the evidence of his believing? It was this declaration, and this only. If this was a mere exclamation of surprise, what proof was it that Thomas believed? Before this he doubted. Now he believed, and gave utterance to his belief, that Jesus was his Lord and his God.
Yes, a good lesson in authority when it is divinely given. A rebellion against Moses as God's appointed deliverer meant a rebellion against God. Similarly, a rebellion against Jesus as God's appointed deliverer means the same thing.
Jesus said that whoever saw him had seen the Father. It doesn't mean that he was God or even equal with his Father, but that he was so like his Father in personality and unity of purpose....."like father, like son" is more what it means to my understanding.
Even after his supernatural abilities, some still did not accept him.
Also no mention dont mean it did not happen. Bible even says that if all the things Jesus did wer recorded, all the books would not contain it.
Jesus was not anointed with holy spirit until his baptism. His first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding feast. There are no miracles mentioned before then.
His mental and physical abilities would have been amazing though because he was a perfect human specimen just like Adam was when God created him.
Jesus did. He gave us the model Prayer which outlines both content and order of priority, and then he instructed his disciples to offer their petitions, supplications and thanksgiving in his name. So Prayer to God must be directed to the Father "in Jesus' name".
The word in Greek is "pro·sky·neʹo" expressing the thought of obeisance and, at times, formal worship.
Most Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts other than worship. However, the context determines in what way the respective words are to be understood.
When the word means worship of Jehovah, it is carried out in the way he prescribes. But when it means respectful honor, the context is the decider.
In the British legal system a judge used to be addressed as "Your Worship" denoting his authority, not implying deity. In the US a judge is addressed as "Your Honor", which is the same word in Greek, and means the same thing. It means to bow before a person of rank or authority. In Israel there was not the sort of bowing down that we see in false worship.
how do you figure Aaron is refering to the idol as yahwah?
Exodus 32
7The LORD told Moses, “Quick! Go down the mountain! Your people whom you brought from the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves. 8How quickly they have turned away from the way I commanded them to live!
So, the people knew the calf was not yahwah. I think Aaron was refering to the actual yahwah when he mentioned the festival.
This is a rather fruitless argument as I am not saying that Israel was worshipping in the right way.
They were in error, no doubt about it. They had brought the Egyptian religious influence with them and offended their God in the process. Associating that kind of worship with Jehovah was offensive. As a consequence of their bad attitude, that whole generation was left to wander in the wilderness for 40 years until a new generation under Moses came back to the worship of Jehovah.
God organized their worship by a strict code that left human input out of the equation completely. By following God's instructions to the letter, they would not go wrong......but they failed miserably to do that, and lost their place.
Once in the Promised Land their future was assured BUT only if they continued to obey Jehovah. After all that Moses went through to cope with this stiff necked people, he himself was disqualified from entering it. Joshua as Moses successor, took them in.
Our "Promised Land" (2 Peter 3:13) is just over the horizon and unfortunately not many who profess belief in Jesus are going to enter it. (Matthew 7:13-14; Matthew 7:21-23)
Luke 13:23-24...."Now a man said to him: “Lord, are those being saved few?” He said to them: 24 “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."
@Tranquil Servant I'm really sorry you are among those confused by this. I understand how it can be, because I know of persons in that state.
A few got it sorted out, and are now happily sharing what they know, and reasoning on the scriptures, as Paul did, but others are so confused they don't even know if the Bible can be trusted.
So I guess Satan grinned and said, "Another one bites the dust." He probably started singing too.
There are two teachings, which I think are designed to dishonor God, and discredit the Bible. Imo, those are the Trinity doctrine, and the Hellfire doctrine. (No intentional offense to those who believe in them).
I think though, they hinder persons' progress in really getting to know the truth about God, and the Bible, for which I think there are a whole treasure of valuables to gain.
I think of that merchant that found the pearl - how happy he was.
Reading your OP, you seem to have agonized over this for some time - not sure how long, but...
There is a method that is very effective in proving things. We can try it.
There are a number of different methods, but they all use one thing - simple rules of logic
This one is used in computer programing. It's called the if-then statement.
So let's try this. IfeventE is truethenJesusJ equals / is GodG (If E then J = G)
Looks familiar?
For fun, let's also use else which basically means otherwise.
First, I think it's important to understand our expression.
We aren't talking about Jesus being God-like that is, spirit.
I personally think that's a strawman persons use to try to support their argument.
However, it fails because we know that the cherubs and seraphs are also God-like, but we don't say Gabriel is God, do we?
So we are not talking about a person being divine in nature. All spirit bodies are divine in nature, according to scripture.
The argument also evidently fails, because the holy spirit as far as I have seen from the Bible, is not a spirit body. It is not a person like God or Jesus. In fact Jesus referred to it as God's finger, and he poured it out on his disciples.
We can also use the same method to test the nature of the holy spirit, if that becomes necessary.
So let's get our events. I have three.
E1 (event #1) = Jesus did not have a beginning
E2 (event #2) = People died when they saw / looked at Jesus
E2 (event #2) = They could not kill Jesus, because he is immortal and cannot die
Let's run our statements. If E1 then J = G else J != G If(Jesus did not have a beginning)thenJesusisGod
else Jesusis NOT God Question: Did Jesus have a beginning?
If E2 then J = G else J != G If(People died when they saw / looked at Jesus)thenJesusisGod
else Jesusis NOT God Question: Did people died when they saw / looked at Jesus?
If E3 then J = G else J != G If(They could not kill Jesus, because he is immortal and cannot die )thenJesusisGod
else Jesusis NOT God Question: Is it true they could not kill Jesus, because he is immortal and cannot die?
To get the answer, we look at the scriptures, of course.
What we know from scripture, is that ...
E1. God has no beginning; ((Isaiah 41:4) ...I, Jehovah, am the First One; And with the last ones I am the same.” (Isaiah 48:12) ...I am the first; I am also the last. (Revelation 22:13) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.)
E2. No man can see God and yet live; ((John 1:18) . . .No man has seen God at any time. . . (Exodus 33:20) But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.” (John 6:46) Not that any man has seen the Father, except the one who is from God; this one has seen the Father. (1 John 4:12) No one has seen God at any time.)
E3. God cannot die. ((Habakkuk 1:12) 12 Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die. (1 Timothy 1:17) Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (Revelation 15:3) They were singing the song of Moses the slave of God and the song of the Lamb, saying: “Great and wonderful are your works, Jehovah God, the Almighty. Righteous and true are your ways, King of eternity.)
Now the final step to analyze the result.
J cannot be G, and yet not G. Either J equals G, or J is not G
So, if we get J != G (J is not G), then we would have proven that Jesus isn't God.
If we get all three (E1, E2, and E3) to be J = G, then Lord help us., At least you should be able to reach your conclusion... hopefully.
I should really had added one more, just in case.
If E4 then J = G else J != G If(The earth burned up and killed everyone before Jesus reach the earth)thenJesusisGod
else Jesusis NOT God Question: Did the earth burned up and killed everyone before Jesus reach the earth?
E4. God is too great and powerful; ((1 Kings 8:27) 27 “But will God really dwell on the earth? Look! The heavens, yes, the heaven of the heavens, cannot contain you; how much less, then, this house that I have built! (Nehemiah 9:6) “You alone are Jehovah; you made the heavens, yes, the heaven of the heavens and all their army, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. And you preserve all of them alive, and the army of the heavens are bowing down to you. (Psalm 148:13) Let them praise the name of Jehovah, For his name alone is unreachably high. His majesty is above earth and heaven.
(Isaiah 40:12) Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand And taken the measurements of the heavens with a span of his hand? Who has gathered in a measure the dust of the earth Or weighed the mountains in the balances And the hills in the scales? (Acts 17:24) The God who made the world and all the things in it, being, as he is, Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade temples...)
Yes but I also said believing in the Messiah is just as important and goes hand in hand with believing in the resurrection of Jesus. Thomas expressed doubt in Jesus on more than one occasion (John 11:16, John 14:5) so it's seems as though very early on, he was struggling with his doubt in Jesus being the prophesied Messiah. Which brought me to another very important question and gave me an idea for a new thread.... The prophesied Messiah
Idk but maybe it's something too complex for us to ever know or fully comprehend in our limited brains and that's why Jesus stresses his followers to BELIEVE!!
Why can't those who profess Jesus is God, just take Paul's writing at 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 as it is?
Elevating Jesus to the level of God is breaking the 1st Commandment.
A crime, btw, which was punishable by death.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
This was the Jews' thinking. They were twisted!
They said the same thing! John 8:41, "We have one Father, God himself."
No one should use faulty reasoning to support a view.
When I asked "Why would Jesus, if he was God, call someone else God?"
You replied, "Idk". I appreciate your honesty....however, @
John 4:22, Jesus himself said:
"You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews." -- New Living Translation.
See, believing in a Trinity, or maybe a duality (that Jesus is God), makes a lot of Jesus' statements, ambiguous and unknowable. The opposite of what Jesus told that Samaritan woman. Vss.23 & 24 tells us again who God is, from Jesus' own mouth.
They said the same thing! John 8:41, "We have one Father, God himself.......
.........however, @
John 4:22, Jesus himself said:
"You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews." -- New Living Translation.
See, believing in a Trinity, or maybe a duality (that Jesus is God), makes a lot of Jesus' statements, ambiguous and unknowable. The opposite of what Jesus told that Samaritan woman. Vss.23 & 24 tells us again who God is, from Jesus' own mouth.
John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
O.k....So I got a question, if Jesus Christ was conceived by the holy spirit, then does he have his own soul or spirit or is he like half God half human?.... Cause half God and half human sounds very pagan to me
I'm sorry but you're confusing me more because it was you that first said "This was the Jews' thinking. They were twisted!" But then you say "They (The Jews) said the same thing! John 8:41, "We have one Father, God himself".......idk
So first you say that they're twisted in their beliefs but then you use a verse from the bible of the Jews saying they only have one father which is God himself.... so I'm not clear on what you mean.
@Hockeycowboy and everyone else who participated in this thread, I thank you very much for trying to help me sort this (problem, issue, question...idk
) Out but like I said I've been Christian my whole life and have always felt like I was blessed by God to be chosen to know him and yes at one time I believed in the trinity but through much contemplation, praying, and studying I've come to realize 3 does not = 1, however I did and still do comfortably believe that God can manifest himself in anyway he sees fit or in any way that he chooses. I went through a moment where my soul felt alittle troubled (because of my own guilt I'm sure). I went and searched on YouTube to see if I could find anything interesting, anything that would comfort me, anything similar to what I already believed in but instead I found confusion so because of ppl I was momentarily confused and troubled and I think the enemy was trying to deceive and confuse me but because of God I feel at ease.
I'm glad to say, that by coming back to these forums (because I've been MIA for a long time) and being compelled to look back into my bible, my confidence has been restored. Something in my heart and in my soul tells me Jesus Christ is my Lord, my savior, and my God.........
John 2:18-21
18 The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
It was because of Man that God cursed the earth with sin but because of a man we are saved and only (sinless) God could save us and that's exactly what he came to do.....no mere human could do that!
Jesus, the Son of Man was (is) the temple of God and God can enter and exit that temple whenever he pleases so my soul is comforted by what the holy spirit is telling me....And if I'm wrong I pray that God forgives me for that of which I don't understand
You bring up a good point....it's through "one man" that sin entered the world (Romans 5:12). Since it was a man who brought sin and death on us (Adam), all that would be needed to buy us back is a perfect man's life, not God's life. Jesus' sacrifice was "a ransom," which is a price paid that is equivalent in value to what is lost, i.e., 'kidnapped'. Jesus paid that price, with perfect blood!
As John 3:16 states, 'God (notice, it doesn't say 'Father'; it says "God") sent His Son'. Jesus willingly did so, and became our Messiah.
Praise and honor goes to Jesus for his love for us, but worship the "only true God", the One who "sent" him. -- John 17:3.
I'm sorry but you're confusing me more because it was you that first said "This was the Jews' thinking. They were twisted!" But then you say "They (The Jews) said the same thing! John 8:41, "We have one Father, God himself".......idk
So first you say that they're twisted in their beliefs but then you use a verse from the bible of the Jews saying they only have one father which is God himself.... so I'm not clear on what you mean.
The Jews accused Jesus of "making himself equal to God", because Jesus called God his Father, right?
But then they call God their Father, but don't accuse themselves of 'making themselves equal.'
It's like double standards. Do you get it? Hope so.
The Jews accused Jesus of "making himself equal to God", because Jesus called God his Father, right?
But then they call God their Father, but don't accuse themselves of 'making themselves equal.'
It's like double standards. Do you get it? Hope so.
Ooooohok.....I get it now but maybe there's more to the story that we don't know and maybe they understood what Jesus was ACTUALLY trying to say cause I'm sure they meant that God is their father because he's the creater but Jesus meant that he actually is a part of God which would make sense of why they wanted to kill him.
Just remember that "were" has an "e" on the end.
