Is it time to punish false accusers of rape/sexual assault?

[Sunstone]

Those who see rapists everywhere it's because rape is something they are predisposed to do themselves

Perhaps "men who see rape everywhere" might also have female friends and relatives who have been raped. I'm 62 years old, and I've known so many women in my life who've been raped, it would be a miracle if such a crime were as rare as some people think it is.

 

[Estro Felino]

In the US it is very illegal to file a false police report, and plenty of judges ready and eager to beat someone with a legal hammer who waste their time and time of the entire system.

Is Ford being tried for defamation, by chance?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is Ford being tried for defamation, by chance?

I am not aware of anyone who has pressed charges. That doesn't mean there aren't any laws against it. And, indeed, there have been false accusation charges brought against those who have falsely accused someone of rape.

 

[Estro Felino]

I am not aware of anyone who has pressed charges. That doesn't mean there aren't any laws against it. And, indeed, there have been false accusation charges brought against those who have falsely accused someone of rape.

Culture plays an essential role,...in the Sicily of the 70s this kid would have been considered a victim and the lady a whore.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Culture plays an essential role,...in the Sicily of the 70s this kid would have been considered a victim and the lady a whore.

That's nothing to be proud of.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Are there not already laws against filing false reports of a crime? I believe there are. So why single out false reports of rape/sexual assault for special treatment?

According to the link

"Accusers who lie about sexual abuse are criminally liable for filing a false report and perjury, as well as civil sanctions for defamation, but legal consequences rarely occur."

So why single out false reports of rape/sexual assault for special treatment?

Well, because it is a topic I wanted to discuss and also these things happen.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I would worry that what you mean is that if someone is found not-guilty, the accuser should face consrquences.

Well our system proclaims "innocent until proven guilty." We live in a society where being accused of rape condemns you publicly. It seems in certain instances accusatory claims trumps factual truth especially when it comes to the court of public opinion.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Is there any statistical evidence that false reports of rape/sexual assault are more frequent than false reports of other criminal activities? What, in other words, makes this a special problem in the minds of some people?

This is just a link off top from the BBC:

"Over the past 20 years, only 2-10% of rape accusations (Prof Ford's lawyer says she believes this was attempted rape) are proven to be fake, argue the authors of a 2010 US study."

Source:The truth about false assault accusations

Link to study:https://web.archive.org/web/2018010...gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf

What, in other words, makes this a special problem in the minds of some people?

I assume you've never been a blue chip athlete before but as an anecdote you have groupies that prey on student athletes who they believe have the potential to become a professional athlete. It is true that even on college teams many athletes are being "coached" into avoiding these situations. Simply put this is a topic that should be talked about. I've lost some good co-workers behind the accusation of one person because such and such didn't like that person.

 

[Curious George]

Well our system proclaims "innocent until proven guilty." We live in a society where being accused of rape condemns you publicly. It seems in certain instances accusatory claims trumps factual truth especially when it comes to the court of public opinion.

It does. And while we have an innocent until proven guilty system, we also have a proof beyond reasonable doubt standards, which when taken together mean that we would prefer to let guilty men and women go free than convict innocent men and women (though we have convicted plenty of innocent people as well).

That our criminal system is based on a particular philosophy does not mean individuals are beholden to those same philosophies. Would you discourage ypur daughter or son from dating an accused rapist, or would you not care as long as they were not proven guilty?

While I agree that false accusers should face some consequence, the trouble comes in determining who is a false accuser. You have done nothing to alleviate my worry that what you mean is we should create penalties for the acusers once a not guilty verdict is reached.

And while you are addressing the legal aspect on one hand you are discussing the "court of public opinion" on another. I do not think you will find many in the public that are sympathetic to people making false accusations.

So if it is the court of public opinion with which you are worried, then don't. In fact, many rape victims face negative consequences by this court of public opinion because they believe the victim is lying, was asking for it, or deserved it. We can really be awful people sometimes.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

There are laws which cover this via false reporting along with libel/slander. There is no need for news laws which cover the same thing. If there is proven false accuser, just as per libel/slander, the victim can sue. The victim can sue other parties involved which took the lies as facts such as termination of employment, etc, etc. The police can charge a person with a false report.

The issue to me is regarding enforcement, criteria, categorization and disclosure of information. Is the justice system charging false accusers with false reporting as LE would in other cases or are there exceptions due to the nature of the accusation? Is there a defined set of criteria to establish a false report compared to an uncorroborated report? No ifs, more likely than not, lower standard of evidence, etc, etc. Are the victims of a false accusation informed regarding their accuser false report?

Enforcement is far better in my opinion.

The problem is the victim of false accusations losing everything before finding vindication. Imagine losing your job, income, and everything behind the accusations of someone and having to spend more money to get counsel by for the average person by the time this happens you're in a worse condition before it gets better.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We can really be awful people sometimes.

Yup.

 

[Altfish]

There have been cases in the UK when false accusers have been jailed, here is an example...

False rape accuser jailed after Solicitor General’s referral

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You have done nothing to alleviate my worry that what you mean is we should create penalties for the acusers once a not guilty verdict is reached.

And while you are addressing the legal aspect on one hand you are discussing the "court of public opinion" on another. I do not think you will find many in the public that are sympathetic to people making false accusations.

I didn't realize I was obligated to rid one of a worry. I was mostly paraphrasing the article itself and gave a minor opinion on the subject. Do I believe we should create penalties for false accusers? Yes. Our main concern whenever it comes to this subject is harm and who is more harmed and what penalties should be met with such cases where severe harm has occurred. When I referred to the court of public opinion I'm also referring to a form of harm where an accusation can harm the accused such as loss of job, suspension of future employment, jail, fines and so forth. I believe for those that do not have celebrity status this is where harm is the greatest because one does not have the resources to attain things like bail, a good lawyer, time etc.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

So if it is the court of public opinion with which you are worried, then don't. In fact, many rape victims face negative consequences by this court of public opinion because they believe the victim is lying, was asking for it, or deserved it. We can really be awful people sometimes.

Like I said in my previous post, it is not just about the court of public opinion but the harm attached to it. See the following for example (since I'm sure you missed it which is a great example of what happens in regards to the court of public opinion):

"According to a local newspaper five girls at T.F.’s high school “terrorized” him with accusations of sexual molestation. T.F. was fired from his part-time job, “tortured in school by the other students and investigators,” expelled and “forced to endure multiple court appearances, detention in a juvenile facility, detention at home, the loss of his liberty and other damages.”

Finally, the girls confessed to lying. Why did they? One explained, "I just don’t like him...I just don’t like to hear him talk…I don’t like to look at him." The girls have not been punished. Meanwhile, the boy is under the care of a psychologist and being schooled at home. Devastated by the experience, his parents are suing."

For me despite having a good job that allows me to have a decent living I cannot afford to be falsely accused for sexual assault and although this sounds too much like common sense, the financial and psychological trauma that would harm me would outweigh the justice I will eventually receive. Like the above story, this kid is going to need therapy in the long run to equalize the psychological trauma he experienced and even then this person may not fully recover.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

@Curious George

The following is a story about Brian Banks a hometown elite football player

This is probably the best example of how harm can cause someone to have their life ruin.....

Brian Banks spent five years in prison after being falsely accused of rape, but now he finally has a career in NFL - NY Daily News

I know what you're going to say "he got an opportunity to play in the NFL" imagine if he was never a football player or imagine he never had someone to investigate these claims of rape.

 

[Estro Felino]

Like I said in my previous post, it is not just about the court of public opinion but the harm attached to it. See the following for example (since I'm sure you missed it which is a great example of what happens in regards to the court of public opinion):

"According to a local newspaper five girls at T.F.’s high school “terrorized” him with accusations of sexual molestation. T.F. was fired from his part-time job, “tortured in school by the other students and investigators,” expelled and “forced to endure multiple court appearances, detention in a juvenile facility, detention at home, the loss of his liberty and other damages.”

Finally, the girls confessed to lying. Why did they? One explained, "I just don’t like him...I just don’t like to hear him talk…I don’t like to look at him." The girls have not been punished. Meanwhile, the boy is under the care of a psychologist and being schooled at home. Devastated by the experience, his parents are suing."

For me despite having a good job that allows me to have a decent living I cannot afford to be falsely accused for sexual assault and although this sounds too much like common sense, the financial and psychological trauma that would harm me would outweigh the justice I will eventually receive. Like the above story, this kid is going to need therapy in the long run to equalize the psychological trauma he experienced and even then this person may not fully recover.

This is a recent phenomenon-
don't you think that certain feminist movements (often hijacked by misandrists who have bias towards the male gender) contribute to push deceivers and wicked girls to use this "culture of suspicion towards the heterosexual male" as a weapon?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you think "pure speculation" is a good basis for advocating a change in the laws?

Oh no. Not at all. That is why the disclaimer.

 

[Estro Felino]

this is a fine day. The judge archived the case Brizzi, a movie producer who was accused of sexual assault....
it has been said that those women (who deserve to be called whores) gave their consent (hoping for favors).

Brizzi acquitted. The farce of the Italian #metoo is over

 

[Jumi]

Those who see rapists everywhere it's because rape is something they are predisposed to do themselves

Kind of hard to agree with that categorically, but there are examples where the saying is true.

 

[Curious George]

@Curious George

The following is a story about Brian Banks a hometown elite football player

This is probably the best example of how harm can cause someone to have their life ruin.....

Brian Banks spent five years in prison after being falsely accused of rape, but now he finally has a career in NFL - NY Daily News

I know what you're going to say "he got an opportunity to play in the NFL" imagine if he was never a football player or imagine he never had someone to investigate these claims of rape.

Why on earth would I say that. It is horrible that he was falsely accused of rape. And I am pretty sure that we can never give him five years back.