Is it all right for Muslims to kill Hatun Tash?

[2ndpillar]

Let me give people like you an answer very similar to the same bogus propaganda that you spread.

Quoting the poster @2ndpillar

Is it all right for a Christians to kill any one from any other religion, even if the Christian scripture says to slay/kill any apostate, and Jesus himself killed a boy who defied him while God killed so many communities of human beings, even babies, animals, while saving only the virgins sometimes for God knows what? The New Bible's, written in the late 21st century, were made the canonical Bibles in the 20th century, and all others thrown left for other abslutists, there are at least 23,000 living manuscripts of the Bible with every single one having variations which if counted overtakes the number of verses in the Bible, which things are absolutely irrelevant to the bigotry that can be shown against people.

I think people who play this cheap gutter game should be returned with similar gutter games.

The Muslim stories/traditions that indicate that Isa ibn Maryam/Yeshua breathed into a clay bird and brought it to life is nothing but a copy of a Gnostic writing, and is no more true than when the Quran says that Abraham and Solomon lived in Mecca of Arabia. Abraham probably passed through the old city of Mecca located between his land of Ur, and the home of Haman, where his nephew Lot lived. And there were no elephants, irrigation canals, nor fruit orchards in the Mecca of Arabia, but instead, at the city of bowing, Petra, originally the holy city being Jerusalem prior to 70 AD. The traditions of Islam are simply stories taken from other times, places and people. The only historical Mohammad Al-Ta'i figure, controller of the nomad Arabs of Persia, was the king/governor of Hira (Al- hirah), who was put in place by the Persian (Sasanian) emperor, in order to control the Arab nomads, was Iyas ibn Qabisah, in the early 600s, who actually initially fought against the Arabs with the Sassanids until later changing course.
As for "Christians", and their NT, which was canonized in 367 AD by way of the power of the Roman Empire and its church leaders, they know and admit they have a lot of variations, and that any errants, such as Joan of Ark, were burned, and the writings of supposed detractors were burned (text of Arius), and the pope even made a public confession for the church's part in the killing of Joan of Ark and the persecution of Galileo. It is the Muslims who claim that there is only one Quran, and by way of the Quran, that Allah protects that Quran, and not one word has been changed. Hatun is hated because she went out and bought at least 36 different Qurans and shown at least 93,000 variations, when all the variant Qurans were supposed to have been either burned in the 650s by Uthman, or thrown into the Nile in the 1920s by the Egyptians. Hatun is wrong in that she follows the example of the false prophet Paul, but western civilization, up until now, gave people the right to be wrong, or right, as is the present case of cancel culture mentality. The original church of Jerusalem, the Ebionites, were like the northern Arab Umayyads, written out of history by another following sect, the Arab Abbasids of Arabia. They used Persian writers to write out the Umayyads in their traditions by the use of their Persian background stories in the 9th and 10 century, around 200 years after the death of the supposed Muhammad of Arabia. The "Christians", and the Muslims are on parallel courses. Both on the wide path to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13), both following false prophets of Matthew 7:15.

 

[firedragon]

The Muslim stories/traditions that indicate that Isa ibn Maryam/Yeshua breathed into a clay bird and brought it to life is nothing but a copy of a Gnostic writing, and is no more true than when the Quran says that Abraham and Solomon lived in Mecca of Arabia. Abraham probably passed through the old city of Mecca located between his land of Ur, and the home of Haman, where his nephew Lot lived. And there were no elephants, irrigation canals, nor fruit orchards in the Mecca of Arabia, but instead, at the city of bowing, Petra, originally the holy city being Jerusalem prior to 70 AD. The traditions of Islam are simply stories taken from other times, places and people. The only historical Mohammad Al-Ta'i figure, controller of the nomad Arabs of Persia, was the king/governor of Hira (Al- hirah), who was put in place by the Persian (Sasanian) emperor, in order to control the Arab nomads, was Iyas ibn Qabisah, in the early 600s, who actually initially fought against the Arabs with the Sassanids until later changing course.
As for "Christians", and their NT, which was canonized in 367 AD by way of the power of the Roman Empire and its church leaders, they know and admit they have a lot of variations, and that any errants, such as Joan of Ark, were burned, and the writings of supposed detractors were burned (text of Arius), and the pope even made a public confession for the church's part in the killing of Joan of Ark and the persecution of Galileo. It is the Muslims who claim that there is only one Quran, and by way of the Quran, that Allah protects that Quran, and not one word has been changed. Hatun is hated because she went out and bought at least 36 different Qurans and shown at least 93,000 variations, when all the variant Qurans were supposed to have been either burned in the 650s by Uthman, or thrown into the Nile in the 1920s by the Egyptians. Hatun is wrong in that she follows the example of the false prophet Paul, but western civilization, up until now, gave people the right to be wrong, or right, as is the present case of cancel culture mentality. The original church of Jerusalem, the Ebionites, were like the northern Arab Umayyads, written out of history by another following sect, the Arab Abbasids of Arabia. They used Persian writers to write out the Umayyads in their traditions by the use of their Persian background stories in the 9th and 10 century, around 200 years after the death of the supposed Muhammad of Arabia. The "Christians", and the Muslims are on parallel courses. Both on the wide path to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13), both following false prophets of Matthew 7:15.

How is this relevant to Hatun? Nah. Its not relevant. If you want irrelevance, I can give you just to portray what we could do. Lets do cut and paste. What you say?

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abomile deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 )

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 )

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 )

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 )

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 )

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 )

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

…/speaker's corner, a place for dialogue between Christians and Muslim's, in London/…

Dear 2ndpillar

I have no comment to your OP but, as calling London’s Speaker’s Corner “a place for dialogue between Christians and Muslims” truly is quite misleading, you open up for significant skepticism against the rest of what you write.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[2ndpillar]

@2ndpillar until the suspect is caught or at least identified I dont think we can say for sure that they are Muslim.

You might find this article useful as it explains police are not yet treating the incident as terror related;

Police slammed for failing to catch knifeman who stabbed Christian preacher | Daily Mail Online

In my opinion.

That would be a politically correct way to approach the subject. Another outlook would be to say that if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is probably a duck. One of the means for dealing with an apostate and idolater in the Quran was to cut of their heads. The guy looked to be trying to cut her throat. Probably as a Trinitarian, she was seen as an idolater. Keep in mind, that the propaganda put out by Muslims, called lying, known as Taqiyya, is protected under the Hadith. As for the police, they work for a Muslim mayor, and their first priority is to keep the terrorist from burning down London.

“Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them, and blockade them, and watch for them at every lookout. Quran 9:5

Quran 47:4: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks;

 

[2ndpillar]

How is this relevant to Hatun? Nah. Its not relevant. If you want irrelevance, I can give you just to portray what we could do. Lets do cut and paste. What you say?

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abomile deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 )

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 )

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 )

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 )

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 )

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 )

The "Law" you quoted is irrelevant to Hatun. She is a follower of Paul, the man of lawlessness. She doesn't keep the Law or preach the Law. Like yourself, she follows a false prophet, who make their own laws. She preaches the false gospel of grace/cross. And she is legally allowed to do so in peace. You apparently abide the false laws of Sharia, yet you still have your right hand. How is that?

 

[firedragon]

The "Law" you quoted is irrelevant to Hatun. She is a follower of Paul, the man of lawlessness. She doesn't keep the Law or preach the Law. Like yourself, she follows a false prophet, who make their own laws. She preaches the false gospel of grace/cross. And she is legally allowed to do so in peace. You apparently abide the false laws of Sharia, yet you still have your right hand. How is that?

Absolutely irrelevant. But this is playing your game. Irrelevance. More to come.

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 )

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 )

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 )

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 )

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 )

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 )

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 )

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 )

 

[2ndpillar]

Dear 2ndpillar

I have no comment to your OP but, as calling London’s Speaker’s Corner “a place for dialogue between Christians and Muslims” truly is quite misleading, you open up for significant skepticism against the rest of what you write.


Humbly
Hermit

Your humility seems to have been left at home. Speakers corner is a place for free speech, which includes Taqiyya, lies. One must question your motives for such a comment.

"Speakers Corner in London's Hyde Park is the oldest free speech platform in the world. People won the right to speak in mass protests in the 1860s and early 1870s."

Speakers Corner (London) - 2021 All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go (with Photos) - Tripadvisor

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Your humility seems to have been left at home. Speakers corner is a place for free speech, which includes Taqiyya, lies. One must question your motives for such a comment.

"Speakers Corner in London's Hyde Park is the oldest free speech platform in the world. People won the right to speak in mass protests in the 1860s and early 1870s."

Speakers Corner (London) - 2021 All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go (with Photos) - Tripadvisor

And surely 2ndpillar, that is just not what you said initially.

But you have now, which I think is better. For your own thread.

My “motive” was clarity; a requirement for potential for credibility of anything you say in the rest of your post. As to what you say; I have - as stated - no comment.

What are your own motives, may a ask?


Humbly
Hermit

 

[2ndpillar]

Absolutely irrelevant. But this is playing your game. Irrelevance. More to come.

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 )

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 )

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 )

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 )

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 )

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 )

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 )

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 )

You seem to be mocking the guidance and light (Torah), given to the Jews per your Quran. I don't know, but you might look out for the wrath of your Mohammad. He didn't like being mocked.

Quran [5.44] Surely We revealed the Taurat (Torah) in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah …

 

[firedragon]

You seem to be mocking the guidance and light (Torah), given to the Jews per your Quran. I don't know, but you might look out for the wrath of your Mohammad. He didn't like being mocked.

Quran [5.44] Surely We revealed the Taurat (Torah) in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah …

More irrelevance.

God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons:

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 )

God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 )

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7

 

[2ndpillar]

And surely 2ndpillar, that is just not what you said initially.

But you have now, which I think is better. For your own thread.

My “motive” was clarity; a requirement for potential for credibility of anything you say in the rest of your post. As to what you say; I have - as stated - no comment.

What are your own motives, may a ask?


Humbly
Hermit

Hey, I am all for "clarity". You come across as disingenuous. Speaker's corner is a place for free speech which is used quite liberally with respect to interactions between Muslims and Christians. The event in question was one with respect to the interaction between a "Christian", and Muslims. Supposedly, if you go there on Sunday, you will find "Christians" and Muslims debating.

 

[firedragon]

Well, the Muslim tradition says it is fine to kill the apostate (sunnah 87:/7), although the Shia's do give a 10 day period for the apostate to repent, other Muslim sects are not so kind. Quran 9:5 "the sword first" is for the slaying of idolaters, which would include Hatun, who believes in the Trinity, although as a "Christian", she should be able to pay the "Christian" tax, which she doesn't. The treaty of Mecca ,was to protect Jews and Christians if they paid tax was rescinded a year after it was made.

Narrated `Abdullah: Allah’s Messenger said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.” Sahih al-Bukhari 6878 - Blood Money (Ad-Diyat) - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

The Infamous Sword Verse - Quran 9:5 - SCRIPTURE TWISTING 101 Ep. 3 - YouTube

Amazing. Hatun is your opportunity. Here you go. Some of your own gutter game. Cut and paste.

Kill Old Men and Young Women

“You are my battle-ax and sword,” says the LORD. “With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. “As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem,” says the LORD. “Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy,” says the LORD. “I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out,” says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 )

More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.(Isaiah 13:15-18 )

 

[PruePhillip]

Is it all right for a Muslim's to kill a 5' 2' female, former Muslim, Hatun Tash, who was preaching at speaker's corner, a place for dialogue between Christians and Muslim's, in London, even if the Muslim tradition says to slay/kill any apostate, and Muhammad himself killed women who criticized him? Hatun's main point is that although the Hufs Quran, written in the late 8th century, was made the canonical Quran in 1924, and all others thrown into the Nile, Hatun pointed out that there are at least 36 different variations of the Quran which can be bought in Islamic countries, and has shown 93,000 different variations in those Qurans, which is contrary to the message that there is only one Quran, whose copy is in heaven.
Hatun Tash Stabbed at Speakers' Corner - YouTube

 

[firedragon]

View attachment 53349

For some people who dont have much substance, downloaded memes are super arguments I see.

Nevertheless, what about the Christian guy who slapped this same woman? Any comments? Why would a Christian guy slap a Christian preacher? Why would not anyone speak much about it?

 

[2ndpillar]

For some people who dont have much substance, downloaded memes are super arguments I see.

Nevertheless, what about the Christian guy who slapped this same woman? Any comments? Why would a Christian guy slap a Christian preacher? Why would not anyone speak much about it?

The video clip I saw was that it was an Arab Christian, whose God, YHWH, in accordance with Syriac/Aramaic to Arabic, is Allah. Apparently the guy had a few screws loose, if the story was correct, and thought the lady was speaking badly of God/Allah. I think they carted the guy off to mumbling heaven.

 

[firedragon]

The video clip I saw was that it was an Arab Christian, whose God, YHWH, in accordance with Syriac/Aramaic to Arabic, is Allah. Apparently the guy had a few screws loose, if the story was correct, and thought the lady was speaking badly of God/Allah. I think they carted the guy off to mumbling heaven.

Of course. When its a Christian and is known to be a Christian who attacked another Christian, he is an Arab which is a point of importance to you because you obviously have a prejudice against Arabs or you are trying to use that as a deterrent, and he is a nut-case, and its to do with linguistics, Syriac/aramaic nonsense you dont have a kids level of knowledge about, and he mumbles etc etc etc etc.

But when it comes to an unknown guy, you conclude its a Muslim, its all Islam, its the Quran, and you made up a bogus story about Muslims confirming it was a Muslim who attacked her, its all about Islam. You would even create bogus evidences to demonise Islam and Muslims. Lol. Unknown man, is Muslim, its about islam, textual criticism which you have never studied in your entire life, variants etc etc etc.

Thats hypocrisy.

 

[Shakeel]

For some people who dont have much substance, downloaded memes are super arguments I see.

Nevertheless, what about the Christian guy who slapped this same woman? Any comments? Why would a Christian guy slap a Christian preacher? Why would not anyone speak much about it?

Maybe he was testing if she would turn the other cheek.

 

[2ndpillar]

Of course. When its a Christian and is known to be a Christian who attacked another Christian, he is an Arab which is a point of importance to you because you obviously have a prejudice against Arabs or you are trying to use that as a deterrent, and he is a nut-case, and its to do with linguistics, Syriac/aramaic nonsense you dont have a kids level of knowledge about, and he mumbles etc etc etc etc.

But when it comes to an unknown guy, you conclude its a Muslim, its all Islam, its the Quran, and you made up a bogus story about Muslims confirming it was a Muslim who attacked her, its all about Islam. You would even create bogus evidences to demonise Islam and Muslims. Lol. Unknown man, is Muslim, its about islam, textual criticism which you have never studied in your entire life, variants etc etc etc.

Thats hypocrisy.

I can see why you need to deflect, being a believer in a man who did not actually historically exist except in the minds of sons of Persian slave writers of the 9th and 10th Century, and a book/Quran which was a compilation of segments, often taken from earlier Gnostic, Jewish, and Zoroaster text, with the early segments dated prior to the message of Gabriel, written about a center of the world trade city, Mecca, with canals and fruit orchards which did not exist. You don't even have a complete compilation of segments before the late 8th century. Your canonized Hafs Quran was written in Kufa , in the late 8th century, by Hafs, born in AD 706, in Baghdad, of the Umayyad Caliphate, whose reputation was that of a liar and a thief by his fellow Muslims. During the rule of the Umayyads, the praying walls pointed to Petra, not Mecca. During the transfer of power timeline, the prayer wall often pointed between Petra and Mecca. Remnants of some of those mosques still exist in North Africa and Spain. When you visit Spain, simply do a google map search from the older mosques.
As for Arabs, the great majority of Muslims are neither Arabs, nor do they speak Arabic. Even Arabs are not uniformly Arabic in genealogy. A DNA study tested Arabs around the world, and they wound up with the largest percentage of DNA carriers of the Aaron strain in Yemen, with respect to any other place in the whole world. Aaron was the brother of Moses, not a son of Ishmael. Apparently a lot of the Jewish priesthood, the Levites, ran to Yemen after 70 AD with the idea of building a holy of holies, a Kaaba, and apparently built one, which was later destroyed along with its possessors by some fictional friend of the fictional character Mohammad, according to Islamic traditions. When one builds their house on sand, they can't expect it to survive floods, hail, and winds.

Allah is the name of God for Arab Christians. allah means - Bing

Allah
[äˈlä, ˈalə]
DEFINITION

1. the name of God among Muslims (and Arab Christians).

 

[firedragon]

I can see why you need to deflect, being a believer in a man who did not actually historically exist except in the minds of sons of Persian slave writers of the 9th and 10th Century, and a book/Quran which was a compilation of segments, often taken from earlier Gnostic, Jewish, and Zoroaster text, with the early segments dated prior to the message of Gabriel, written about a center of the world trade city, Mecca, with canals and fruit orchards which did not exist. You don't even have a complete compilation of segments before the late 8th century. Your canonized Hafs Quran was written in Kufa , in the late 8th century, by Hafs, born in AD 706, in Baghdad, of the Umayyad Caliphate, whose reputation was that of a liar and a thief by his fellow Muslims. During the rule of the Umayyads, the praying walls pointed to Petra, not Mecca. During the transfer of power timeline, the prayer wall often pointed between Petra and Mecca. Remnants of some of those mosques still exist in North Africa and Spain. When you visit Spain, simply do a google map search from the older mosques.
As for Arabs, the great majority of Muslims are neither Arabs, nor do they speak Arabic. Even Arabs are not uniformly Arabic in genealogy. A DNA study tested Arabs around the world, and they wound up with the largest percentage of DNA carriers of the Aaron strain in Yemen, with respect to any other place in the whole world. Aaron was the brother of Moses, not a son of Ishmael. Apparently a lot of the Jewish priesthood, the Levites, ran to Yemen after 70 AD with the idea of building a holy of holies, a Kaaba, and apparently built one, which was later destroyed along with its possessors by some fictional friend of the fictional character Mohammad, according to Islamic traditions. When one builds their house on sand, they can't expect it to survive floods, hail, and winds.

Allah is the name of God for Arab Christians. allah means - Bing

Allah
[äˈlä, ˈalə]
DEFINITION

1. the name of God among Muslims (and Arab Christians).

God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons:

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 )

God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 )

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 )

Murdering Children

Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 )

God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.” O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.” (Hosea 9:11-16 )

Kill Men, Women, and Children

“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 )

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 )

 

[kiwimac]

That would be a politically correct way to approach the subject. Another outlook would be to say that if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is probably a duck. One of the means for dealing with an apostate and idolater in the Quran was to cut of their heads. The guy looked to be trying to cut her throat. Probably as a Trinitarian, she was seen as an idolater. Keep in mind, that the propaganda put out by Muslims, called lying, known as Taqiyya, is protected under the Hadith. As for the police, they work for a Muslim mayor, and their first priority is to keep the terrorist from burning down London.

“Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them, and blockade them, and watch for them at every lookout. Quran 9:5

Quran 47:4: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks;

What a crock of foetid dingoes kidneys!