Is it all right for Muslims to kill Hatun Tash?

[Link]

@2ndpillar No, it is wrong according to the law of the land in the west (as it should be).

Which is why we should limit immigration to people who believe in blasphemy and/or apostasy laws.

First of all, happy birthday!

Next, my family when I left Islam, didn't treat me worse, they treated me better. Personally, from my interaction with Muslims in the west, very few believe in killing apostates. You get the zealots on the internet of course.

I don't know of other demographics, but my family in Bahrain and Iran all seem to not believe in it, despite they imitating scholars for Islamic laws and rituals in general.

I have a feeling in this day and age, very few, actually believe in it. But I don't know.

 

[Shakeel]

@2ndpillar No, it is wrong according to the law of the land in the west (as it should be).

Which is why we should limit immigration to people who believe in blasphemy and/or apostasy laws.

Why when they only apply in islamic countries?

 

[danieldemol]

Why when they only apply in islamic countries?

Because if enough of them were imported they could change the law here through democratic processes to reflect Islamic law.

 

[Shakeel]

Because if enough of them were imported they could change the law here through democratic processes to reflect Islamic law.

That's true, but then who will have children on your behalf? Alone your economy will crash and you might end up with Chinese passports..

 

[danieldemol]

First of all, happy birthday!

Next, my family when I left Islam, didn't treat me worse, they treated me better. Personally, from my interaction with Muslims in the west, very few believe in killing apostates. You get the zealots on the internet of course.

I don't know of other demographics, but my family in Bahrain and Iran all seem to not believe in it, despite they imitating scholars for Islamic laws and rituals in general.

I have a feeling in this day and age, very few, actually believe in it. But I don't know.

Those zealots on the internet are real life people in places such as the Middle East and North Africa region;

See the title, "Penalty for Converting to Another Faith" here;
​

Muslim Beliefs About Sharia

Very few people believe in it in the west because we have good immigration policy in place already.

 

[danieldemol]

That's true, but then who will have children on your behalf? Alone your economy will crash and you might end up with Chinese passports..

There are plenty of people who are not fanatics that we can import. Why not Indian passports?

 

[Shakeel]

There are plenty of people who are not fanatics that we can import. Why not Indian passports?

Are you sure you don't prefer Chinese? It's a tough choice. You think it over. Though, many Indians are Muslims and the number is rising.

 

[danieldemol]

Are you sure you don't prefer Chinese? It's a tough choice. You think it over. Though, many Indians are Muslims and the number is rising.

There are plenty of Muslims in China too so it's a moot point.

I'm just under the impression that people are freer in India than China

 

[2ndpillar]

Where do these religious nut jobs get off thinking that because they worship this god or thay god that they somehow think they are above the law of the land they choise as home?

Well, as this happened in London, which has a Muslim mayor, whose idea of law is Sharia law, there is apparently some wiggle room, as the majority of voters just reelected the idiot, whose police department arrested Hatun for inflammatory speech whenever in the past she has been assaulted at a place reserved for free speech. Much like Berkeley threatening to turn away a conservative speaker, Ben Shapiro, to give a talk on free speech. Antifa protested the racist 5' 4" Jew from giving a talk on freedom of speech on the grounds that Ben was a Nazi. Of course the authorities felt that Antifa would try and kill the guy if possible. That is probably why they hired 700 cops. Ben is often turned away from even attending conservative speeches. None of the assailants who assailed Hatun have been arrested, nor has Antifa been arrested for damaging shops in the Berkeley neighborhood. Berkeley wanted Ben to pay the $600,000 cost for police protection. Apparently free speech isn't free nor safe.
UCLA Tries To Stop Shapiro Speech With Unconstitutional Fee To College Republicans | The Daily Wire
Conservative speaker Milo had his Berkeley speech canceled because of Antifa protest which winded up causing $100,000 in Berkeley city damage.
2017 Berkeley protests - Wikipedia

 

[ChristineM]

Well, as this happened in London, which has a Muslim mayor, whose idea of law is Sharia law, there is apparently some wiggle room, as the majority of voters just reelected the idiot, whose police department arrested Hatun for inflammatory speech whenever in the past she has been assaulted at a place reserved for free speech. Much like Berkeley threatening to turn away a conservative speaker, Ben Shapiro, to give a talk on free speech. Antifa protested the racist 5' 4" Jew from giving a talk on freedom of speech on the grounds that Ben was a Nazi. Of course the authorities felt that Antifa would try and kill the guy if possible. That is probably why they hired 700 cops. Ben is often turned away from even attending conservative speeches. None of the assailants who assailed Hatun have been arrested, nor has Antifa been arrested for damaging shops in the Berkeley neighborhood. Berkeley wanted Ben to pay the $600,000 cost for police protection. Apparently free speech isn't free nor safe.
UCLA Tries To Stop Shapiro Speech With Unconstitutional Fee To College Republicans | The Daily Wire
Conservative speaker Milo had his Berkeley speech canceled because of Antifa protest which winded up causing $100,000 in Berkeley city damage.
2017 Berkeley protests - Wikipedia

There is no wriggle room, the law is the law and even if the mayor is a Muslim what has that to do with it? It certainly does not mean muslims get free reign to kill people they dont like


Nor has America anything to do with it, they have their own laws.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

nor has Antifa been arrested for damaging shops in the Berkeley neighborhood.

There is no organized Antifa to arrest. Literally, the privilege to claim you are Antifa is to just be opposed to Fascism. That's it. There's no club, no dues, no newsletter, no membership screening, no membership card, absolutely nothing of the sort. It would be like trying to arrest Q-anon over the January 6th riots. It makes absolutely no sense to do that because it's more of an ideology with loose and open association than a formal organization (the same for Antifa).

 

[2ndpillar]

Some pick on Islam for killing others but religious and honor killings are not limited to Islam. Get raped? Be killed. Marry someone of a different religion? Be killed. Honor killing - Wikipedia

Apostasy - Wikipedia

Classical (Christian) canon law viewed apostasy as distinct from heresy and schism. Apostasy a fide, defined as total repudiation of the Christian faith, was considered as different from a theological standpoint from heresy, but subject to the same penalty of death by fire by decretist jurists.[46

Well I view the Inquisition of the Roman church in the same light as killing women (Joan of Ark) or people with a change in faith by either religion. They both fall under the category of daughters of Babylon, whose god Bel/Marduk/Molech (Lev 18:21) was worshipped by burning one's children as sacrifice, much like the practices of the progressive party. According to Muslim tradition, this Muhammad character, stabbed a nursing mother in the belly and killed her when she mocked the guy. Apparently she was like a poet, and he didn't like what she said. The lady that supposedly poisoned Mohammad didn't give him that chance. Keep in mind that the warrior that killed the king of kings of Persia, Cyrus, had his head cut off by a woman warrior king of the northern Iranians/Persia. One should slight women at their own risk.

 

[2ndpillar]

There is no wriggle room, the law is the law and even if the mayor is a Muslim what has that to do with it? It certainly does not mean muslims get free reign to kill people they dont like


Nor has America anything to do with it, they have their own laws.

Free speech is free or not free, whether in London or America. And like Paris, London or Dearborn, Michigan, they have no go zones, where if you are a young white female, you best not enter, and the police generally try to avoid. A Muslim congress women apparently has two husbands, and one of them is her "brother", and apparently she made a marriage tax deduction before she was married. Kind of like not keeping US laws. In Sharia law, Muslims are except from taxes. Taxes are for Christians and Jews.

London's No-Go Zones (nysun.com)
Islamic Extremists Have Seized Control Of U.S. Cities, Says NRA Seminar – ThinkProgress

 

[2ndpillar]

There is no organized Antifa to arrest. Literally, the privilege to claim you are Antifa is to just be opposed to Fascism. That's it. There's no club, no dues, no newsletter, no membership screening, no membership card, absolutely nothing of the sort. It would be like trying to arrest Q-anon over the January 6th riots. It makes absolutely no sense to do that because it's more of an ideology with loose and open association than a formal organization (the same for Antifa).

Thank you for your opinion Mr. Biden. It was not an organization which caused damage, it was individuals who in the California or Seattle area, who are generally not charged for crimes. Fascism stems from Mussolini's brown shirts, who burned books and crushed free speech. This was mimicked by Hitler's Black shirts. It was the progressive Franklin Roosevelt's advisers who schooled Hitler's advisors on the ins and outs of Jim Crow laws, for Hitler's nationalist socialist party (fascist) to use the same laws on the Jews. Antifa is an anarchist organization, which is fascist to the core. Actually some Antifa were arrested. The problem is that they are rarely prosecuted by the fascist politicians or their prosecutors. Like the historic KKK, Antifa seems to be the military arm of the Democratic Party, financed by the dregs of the earth, and manned mostly by young pasty faced liberals.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Thank you for your opinion Mr. Biden. It was not an organization which caused damage, it was individuals who in the California or Seattle area, who are generally not charged for crimes. Fascism stems from Mussolini's brown shirts, who burned books and crushed free speech. This was mimicked by Hitler's Black shirts. It was the progressive Franklin Roosevelt's advisers who schooled Hitler's advisors on the ins and outs of Jim Crow laws, for Hitler's nationalist socialist party (fascist) to use the same laws on the Jews. Antifa is an anarchist organization, which is fascist to the core. Actually some Antifa were arrested. The problem is that they are rarely prosecuted by the fascist politicians or their prosecutors. Like the historic KKK, Antifa seems to be the military arm of the Democratic Party, financed by the dregs of the earth, and manned mostly by young pasty faced liberals.

There is no formal Antifa. It's not like the Klan, the Black Panthers, Boy Scouts, AARP, or any other organized group with centralized leadership. Antifa is an idea. Not an organization. That's why they rarely get arrested. Because Antifa doesn't exist like NRA does.

 

[firedragon]

Is it all right for a Muslim's to kill a 5' 2' female, former Muslim, Hatun Tash, who was preaching at speaker's corner, a place for dialogue between Christians and Muslim's, in London, even if the Muslim tradition says to slay/kill any apostate, and Muhammad himself killed women who criticized him? Hatun's main point is that although the Hufs Quran, written in the late 8th century, was made the canonical Quran in 1924, and all others thrown into the Nile, Hatun pointed out that there are at least 36 different variations of the Quran which can be bought in Islamic countries, and has shown 93,000 different variations in those Qurans, which is contrary to the message that there is only one Quran, whose copy is in heaven.
Hatun Tash Stabbed at Speakers' Corner - YouTube

No. Its not alright.

How do you know it was a Muslim?

Previously some man slapped her, and people like this post made a big deal out of it and tried their best to spread some hatred because it has its gains. But ironically the man who slapped her was investigated and found out to have been a Christian all his life. So it was a conspiracy.

So how do you know this is not the same? Do you know who tried to stab this lady personally?

 

[firedragon]

I hope to see some clear unequivocal NO IT IS NOT ALRIGHT from forum members.

No its not alright.

 

[2ndpillar]

There is no organized Antifa to arrest. Literally, the privilege to claim you are Antifa is to just be opposed to Fascism. That's it. There's no club, no dues, no newsletter, no membership screening, no membership card, absolutely nothing of the sort. It would be like trying to arrest Q-anon over the January 6th riots. It makes absolutely no sense to do that because it's more of an ideology with loose and open association than a formal organization (the same for Antifa).

If ANTIFA is only an ideology, then it needs to be stamped out. It is only the cognitive dissonant persons, such as Joe Biden, who can refer to arsonist, and terrorist as only an ideology. It is composed of centrally managed and financed smaller groups, financed by the leftist, who are all fascist, in the same vent as the KKK. Burn and terrorize, and eliminate law and order. And as you say, the devil/Satan loves them and their supporters.

It is an insult the intelligence of the country to say ANTIFA is not an organization.

If it’s an ideology…

Who beat up Andy Ngo in Portland?

If it’s an ideology…

Who’s burning down these buildings?

If it’s an ideology…

Who’s shining lasers in the eyes of police officers and blinding them for life?

If it’s an ideology…

Who is shooting Trump supporters in the streets simply for being Trump supporters?

If it’s an ideology…

Why do former members refer to them as a group.
Debunking Biden's Claim: ANTIFA Is An Organization, Not Just An Ideology (freedomwire.com)

 

[2ndpillar]

No. Its not alright.

How do you know it was a Muslim?

Previously some man slapped her, and people like this post made a big deal out of it and tried their best to spread some hatred because it has its gains. But ironically the man who slapped her was investigated and found out to have been a Christian all his life. So it was a conspiracy.

So how do you know this is not the same? Do you know who tried to stab this lady personally?

The Muslim's at the corner identified the man with a knife as a Muslim. Hatun was assaulted on several occasions, and the last I saw was by an Arab. The cartoon she had on her shirt was made by Charlie Hebdo, who worked for a news agency, and his news agency was attacked and 12 people were murdered by Islamist because they had thought Charlie did not share their worship of Mohammad. I have to assume he didn't pay his tax to Mohammad. There was no historical Mohammad of the non existing trading center located at Mecca, Arabia. Such traditions were written in the 9th and 10th century by former Persians of the Zoroaster faith, Gnostics, or of the Abrahamic faith. The main trading center up to the 70th year of the Arabic calendar, when the Kaaba was located at Petra, at which time it was transferred to Mecca, and Sana'a had its own Kaaba, destroyed by a friend of this guy Mohammad, with Medina being a trading center for hides and animal products from Yemen. Mecca of Arabia was a desolate place, and Abraham nor Solomon lived there, despite what the late 8th century, Persian written Hufs canonized Quran may have said. The Muslim traditions are mainly based on Jewish, Zoroaster, and Gnostic text which existed prior to the birth of some so called "blessed one"/"praised one"/Mohammad, which when applied to the text of the Quran, better describes Isa Ibn Maryam, for whom the Quran describes as a prophet of Allah, the Aramaic name for YHWY/God. .Listen, Islam after 9/11 became a religion of peace. In the west, it is doubtful that many of the Muslims even read the Quran. They probably all mostly have milk and toast Imams, and don't even know what the Quran or traditions even say. Only 15% of all Muslims can even read Arabic. They are like Catholics. They either joined group think under threat of the sword or fire, were married into it, were born into it, or found financial reasons to join. If you want hard core Islamist, go to Yemen. Some may think they are looking forward to 72 virgins, but the word for "virgin" in Arabic, with an Aramaic root, hur, is the same as for "date"/white grape/raisin. The best they can expect is 72 dates or raisins. On the other hand some say they will get 72 wives, probably a couple too many:

Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: "The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]'."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If ANTIFA is only an ideology, then it needs to be stamped out. It is only the cognitive dissonant persons, such as Joe Biden, who can refer to arsonist, and terrorist as only an ideology. It is composed of centrally managed and financed smaller groups, financed by the leftist, who are all fascist, in the same vent as the KKK. Burn and terrorize, and eliminate law and order. And as you say, the devil/Satan loves them and their supporters.

It is an insult the intelligence of the country to say ANTIFA is not an organization.

If it’s an ideology…

Who beat up Andy Ngo in Portland?

If it’s an ideology…

Who’s burning down these buildings?

If it’s an ideology…

Who’s shining lasers in the eyes of police officers and blinding them for life?

If it’s an ideology…

Who is shooting Trump supporters in the streets simply for being Trump supporters?

If it’s an ideology…

Why do former members refer to them as a group.
Debunking Biden's Claim: ANTIFA Is An Organization, Not Just An Ideology (freedomwire.com)

Individuals acting on their own, much like with ALF or ELF.