Is God Truly Perfect?

[SalixIncendium]

It's a popular notion that God/Brahman/the Absolute (let's refer to It as 'God' [or G-d if you prefer] for the purpose of the thread) is omniscient and perfect.

Is it possible God is not omniscient or perfect and that we, and the reality in which we live, are manifestations of It attempting to realize, understand, or perfect Itself? Why or why not?

Edited to clarify the meaning of perfect for the purpose of this thread. Perfect here can be defined as being entirely without fault or defect.

 

[questfortruth]

..............
Is it possible God is not omniscient or perfect and that we, and the reality in which we live, are manifestations of It attempting to realize, understand, or perfect Itself? Why or why not?

Just call him Red blue dragon in my garage, if He is not perfect. But not use the holy word "God".

 

[idav]

Sure God could be son perfect that humans seem a bit unsightly to it. I think that is a bit extreme it is easier to reconcile the loss of Gods power(not being Omni-powerful) especially if any of its creation are to have any semblance of freedom to choose.

 

[David T]

It's a popular notion that God/Brahman/the Absolute (let's refer to It as 'God' [or G-d if you prefer] for the purpose of the thread) is omniscient and perfect.

Is it possible God is not omniscient or perfect and that we, and the reality in which we live, are manifestations of It attempting to realize, understand, or perfect Itself? Why or why not?

Camaflauged always camaflauged.

 

[sayak83]

It's a popular notion that God/Brahman/the Absolute (let's refer to It as 'God' [or G-d if you prefer] for the purpose of the thread) is omniscient and perfect.

Is it possible God is not omniscient or perfect and that we, and the reality in which we live, are manifestations of It attempting to realize, understand, or perfect Itself? Why or why not?

Since there is nothing else, with what would one measure perfection?

 

[Sanzbir]

If perfect is defined as "having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be" then yes. God is perfect. The world is perfect. Everything on the world is perfect.

As Hermes is quoted as having said, "It is impossible for the realm of creation to be better than it already is." So everything is as "good as it is possible to be" (regardless of who's subjective definition of "good" you use), and thus everything is perfect.

 

[Quintessence]

The notion that a deity must be omniscient or perfect is an assumption particular to classical monotheism; outside of that theological framework it is absent more often than not. Put another way, it's the modus operandi outside of classical monotheism for gods to not be omniscient or perfect. There are some nuances worth exploring there, though.

Omniscience is basically talking about a deity's level of awareness, and I think it is worth recognizing that different god-concepts have different scopes of awareness. Some of the gods I worship as a polytheist are effectively omniscient because they are everywhere in all things. Those are the exception to the general rule, however. On the whole, the gods I worship have an awareness limited by their scope/domain.

Perfection relates to areté - virtue and excellence - and gods have different levels of this too. Some of the gods I worship essentially are a virtue and define what excellence is in that particular endeavor. They are, in a sense, perfect with respect to that virtue. For others, not so much. There's also a general sentiment common amongst Pagans that the world is just fine as it is. "Perfect" is perhaps too strong of a word to use, but there isn't this perspective that the world is "broken" or "sinful" or "flawed" in some fundamental way. This extends to how we might view the gods in general - they are just fine as they are.

I don't know about this whole "manifestations" thing the OP gets into. That bit kinda went over my head reading it this morning. Maybe it'll sink in later?

 

[syo]

It's a popular notion that God/Brahman/the Absolute (let's refer to It as 'God' [or G-d if you prefer] for the purpose of the thread) is omniscient and perfect.

Is it possible God is not omniscient or perfect and that we, and the reality in which we live, are manifestations of It attempting to realize, understand, or perfect Itself? Why or why not?

in creation, we are the result, the ending, not the beginning. we don't create gods, god creates us. we are the result of god's wisdom, not the cause.

 

[George-ananda]

Is it possible God is not omniscient or perfect and that we, and the reality in which we live, are manifestations of It attempting to realize, understand, or perfect Itself?

I believe God is beyond even the human understanding of the word 'perfect'. God is the only real and permanent behind this ever changing universe. God is pure unbounded consciousness. The universe is then his creative expression and not his learning experience.

Why or why not?

The 'why' comes from my considered study of the masters and mystics that I have come to believe have experienced the nature of reality at its fundamental levels primarily of the non-dual (God and creation are not-two) Hindu/Advaita and esoteric western wisdom traditions.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Just call him Red blue dragon in my garage, if He is not perfect. But not use the holy word "God".

I'm not clear on what you are saying here or what red, blue, dragons, or garages have to do with the question. Also what does "not use the holy word 'God'" mean? Can you please rephrase?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Sure God could be son perfect that humans seem a bit unsightly to it. I think that is a bit extreme it is easier to reconcile the loss of Gods power(not being Omni-powerful) especially if any of its creation are to have any semblance of freedom to choose.

Forgive my request for clarification. Perhaps I'm a bit slow on the uptake this morning.

Are you saying that our perception of perfection might be skewed by our actual level of perfection and the perfection is relative?

 

[SalixIncendium]

If perfect is defined as "having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be" then yes. God is perfect. The world is perfect. Everything on the world is perfect.

As Hermes is quoted as having said, "It is impossible for the realm of creation to be better than it already is." So everything is as "good as it is possible to be" (regardless of who's subjective definition of "good" you use), and thus everything is perfect.

For the purpose of this thread, I am defining 'perfect' as being entirely without fault or defect.

Thanks for this. I'll edit the OP.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I don't know about this whole "manifestations" thing the OP gets into. That bit kinda went over my head reading it this morning. Maybe it'll sink in later?

I suppose I was injecting my own views into the OP, as I view our temporal selves in our perceived reality to be illusory projections of our higher Selves, which are manifestations of the Absolute.

This can also be taken from the Biblical notion that God created man in his image, thereby making man manifestations of Him.

 

[SalixIncendium]

in creation, we are the result, the ending, not the beginning. we don't create gods, god creates us. we are the result of god's wisdom, not the cause.

Can you please clarify if you response means God is perfect or not perfect, which was the question posed in the OP?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I believe God is beyond even the human understanding of the word 'perfect'. God is the only real and permanent behind this ever changing universe. God is pure unbounded consciousness. The universe is then his creative expression and not his learning experience.
The 'why' comes from my considered study of the masters and mystics that I have come to believe have experienced the nature of reality at its fundamental levels primarily of the non-dual (God and creation are not-two) Hindu/Advaita and esoteric western wisdom traditions.

From an Advaita perspective, if God (Brahman) is beyond human understanding of the word 'perfect,' and Atman is the Brahman, wouldn't that reasoning bring the Self (Atman) beyond human understanding of the word 'perfect?'

 

[syo]

Can you please clarify if you response means God is perfect or not perfect, which was the question posed in the OP?

yes, god is perfect.

 

[Sanzbir]

For the purpose of this thread, I am defining 'perfect' as being entirely without fault or defect.

Thanks for this. I'll edit the OP.

Well that really makes a mess of things then. "Fault" by whose standards?? "Defect" by whose standards?? The definition is wholly subjective now, and thus, meaningless.

 

[George-ananda]

From an Advaita perspective, if God (Brahman) is beyond human understanding of the word 'perfect,' and Atman is the Brahman, wouldn't that reasoning bring the Self (Atman) beyond human understanding of the word 'perfect?'

I am a little unclear as to what you are saying. God/Brahman is pure consciousness and then how can that be described as 'perfect' or 'imperfect'. I was trying to say the terms don't apply to God/Brahman. "Perfect' and 'imperfect" are terms for the realm of finite things.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Well that really makes a mess of things then. "Fault" by whose standards?? "Defect" by whose standards?? The definition is wholly subjective now, and thus, meaningless.

Meaningless by whose standards?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I am a little unclear as to what you are saying. God/Brahman is pure consciousness and then how can that be described as 'perfect' or 'imperfect'. I was trying to say the terms don't apply to God/Brahman. "Perfect' and 'imperfect" are terms for the realm of finite things.

I think I'm getting closer to understanding what you're saying here. God/Brahman is beyond one's ability to perceive and is therefore imperceivable as 'perfect' or 'imperfect.' Does this apply to the Self/Atman as well?