Is God evil because He causes death?

[Autodidact]

God does not create death. Death is the wage that we pay when we sin. The only human to have never sinned in their life was Jesus Christ, because he ransomed a perfect life to replace the one Adam lost when he sinned. It was through Adam that sin entered the world and it is through christ that sin will leave the world, but that does not happen until after Armageddon.

Why on earth do religious proponents think that announcing their bizarre myths as if they were facts would be remotely persuasive or compelling? All it does is undermine their own credibility. Maybe you meant something like, "I believe that..."

But, to accept your strange premises as if they had some basis in fact:
Who decreed that death would be the wage of sin?

And, btw, if a baby dies seconds after birth, as happens, what sin did it commit?
And why on earth would something some guy did 4000 years ago be my problem? Don't you believe that you're responsible for your own decisions?
Similarly, assuming that the Romans killed a guy named Jesus before I was born, why would that have any affect on my sins? Isn't it my own job to avoid sinning and repent for my own sins?
Very strange, well, primitive really, belief system you've got there.
Why wait till Armegeddon, anyway?

 

[Autodidact]

If I understand gnomon completely, I think he is saying something like that the following argument is absurd:
1. God is cruel.
2. Therefore God does not exist.
Which is of course correct, but not, I think, what is being argued. Rather it's more like these kinds of things:
Reality does not comport with the God you claim to believe in.
Therefore that specific God does not exist.

Further, there are side claims about God, His nature, and the benefits of joining His cult. Sometimes when you knock a little chink in that belief system, the adherent may begin to question further and even allow him or herself to set aside the blinders of faith long enough to consider evidence or logic.

 

[Starfish]

God does not create death. Death is the wage that we pay when we sin. The only human to have never sinned in their life was Jesus Christ, because he ransomed a perfect life to replace the one Adam lost when he sinned. It was through Adam that sin entered the world and it is through christ that sin will leave the world, but that does not happen until after Armageddon.

Adam's transgression brought both kinds of death into the world--spiritual and physical. "Adam fell that men might be." Christ conquered both kinds of death through his resurrection and the atonement.

 

[Jeremiah]

If I understand gnomon completely, I think he is saying something like that the following argument is absurd:
1. God is cruel.
2. Therefore God does not exist.
Which is of course correct, but not, I think, what is being argued. Rather it's more like these kinds of things:
Reality does not comport with the God you claim to believe in.
Therefore that specific God does not exist.

Further, there are side claims about God, His nature, and the benefits of joining His cult. Sometimes when you knock a little chink in that belief system, the adherent may begin to question further and even allow him or herself to set aside the blinders of faith long enough to consider evidence or logic.

Ah yes thanks.


"Using the notion of evil against the existence of a God is absurd. How an atheist could ever posit such an argument and still maintain an atheistic viewpoint.......is absurd as well." - gnomon

He specified evil though as it's own entity. I was only trying to elucidate the existence of evil and the claim of an all powerful, all knowing and perfectly good god is a contradiction. Making evil a completely valid reason to reject the existence of the god in question. But I see your point. His invisible pink unicorn is not exactly consistence with this post here. As in his initial post he calls into question two separate elements; evil and God. I also question his second sentence as the problem of evil is one of the oldest arguments against the existence of God.

 

[credance]

If people didn't die there would be be a lot of old people around. At some point thousands of years ago procreation would have been stopped by law. There would be no children and thus no hope for the future to be better. This world is not paradise for most. Would you want to scratch out an existance by the sweat of your brow for eternity?
How would we keep score in a war, by the number of slaves we captured to serve us forever? Ruthless men would dominate everything.
As it stands now no matter what they conquer in this world death will be the ultimate victor.

 

[gnomon]

If I understand gnomon completely, I think he is saying something like that the following argument is absurd:
1. God is cruel.
2. Therefore God does not exist.
Which is of course correct, but not, I think, what is being argued. Rather it's more like these kinds of things:
Reality does not comport with the God you claim to believe in.
Therefore that specific God does not exist.

Further, there are side claims about God, His nature, and the benefits of joining His cult. Sometimes when you knock a little chink in that belief system, the adherent may begin to question further and even allow him or herself to set aside the blinders of faith long enough to consider evidence or logic.

Yay! Somebody didn't have to have it spelled out. Yes, there are other arguments going on in this thread outside the scope of my initial post. I never questioned the importance of questioning views of then natural world posited by any religious/spiritual system. That would take all the fun out of engaging on this forum. I was solely referencing the dismissal of a higher power based upon its personality which lies outside the scope of empiricism as much as the existence of such a being itself.

He specified evil though as it's own entity. I was only trying to elucidate the existence of evil and the claim of an all powerful, all knowing and perfectly good god is a contradiction. Making evil a completely valid reason to reject the existence of the god in question. But I see your point. His invisible pink unicorn is not exactly consistence with this post here. As in his initial post he calls into question two separate elements; evil and God. I also question his second sentence as the problem of evil is one of the oldest arguments against the existence of God.

Wrong. I was never talking specifically about the existence of an all powerful, all knowing and perfectly good God. Those were never my words nor my implications. It was a poor attempt by others to box in to their own understanding of a specific type of God.

What I was alluding to, rather poorly, was that the argument that a God cannot exist because of evil leaves out the implication that God is evil. To choose not to believe in something because it is evil, i.e. one doesn't like it, is absurd if one chooses to believe in said object without any empirical evidence for its existence. As far as the problem of evil it may very well be said that the philosophers who tackle this issue are wrong about what they understand as the nature of evil. Since I believe in neither God nor evil...I seen no reason to go further.

If an eternal being exists outside the laws of physics what possible logic can we use to ascribe human characteristics to it.

Anyway, I must conclude and finish this thread because,
A) I've been found out.:cover:
B) I just can't get some people to snap.

 

[Magic Man]

Yay! Somebody didn't have to have it spelled out. Yes, there are other arguments going on in this thread outside the scope of my initial post. I never questioned the importance of questioning views of then natural world posited by any religious/spiritual system. That would take all the fun out of engaging on this forum. I was solely referencing the dismissal of a higher power based upon its personality which lies outside the scope of empiricism as much as the existence of such a being itself.



Wrong. I was never talking specifically about the existence of an all powerful, all knowing and perfectly good God. Those were never my words nor my implications. It was a poor attempt by others to box in to their own understanding of a specific type of God.

What I was alluding to, rather poorly, was that the argument that a God cannot exist because of evil leaves out the implication that God is evil. To choose not to believe in something because it is evil, i.e. one doesn't like it, is absurd if one chooses to believe in said object without any empirical evidence for its existence. As far as the problem of evil it may very well be said that the philosophers who tackle this issue are wrong about what they understand as the nature of evil. Since I believe in neither God nor evil...I seen no reason to go further.

If an eternal being exists outside the laws of physics what possible logic can we use to ascribe human characteristics to it.

Anyway, I must conclude and finish this thread because,
A) I've been found out.:cover:
B) I just can't get some people to snap.

Well, I finally see what you were trying to say. I just think you were not clear enough. It is true that the problem of evil doesn't mean that no god exists, just the one in question here, the Christian, all-good version. I never said that this argument works against all versions of God, but it does work against the one most discussed here. In that way it's not absurd, that's all. It would be absurd to use it to say that no gods exists, though.

 

[lockyfan]

Why on earth do religious proponents think that announcing their bizarre myths as if they were facts would be remotely persuasive or compelling? All it does is undermine their own credibility. Maybe you meant something like, "I believe that..."

But, to accept your strange premises as if they had some basis in fact:
Who decreed that death would be the wage of sin?

And, btw, if a baby dies seconds after birth, as happens, what sin did it commit?
And why on earth would something some guy did 4000 years ago be my problem? Don't you believe that you're responsible for your own decisions?
Similarly, assuming that the Romans killed a guy named Jesus before I was born, why would that have any affect on my sins? Isn't it my own job to avoid sinning and repent for my own sins?
Very strange, well, primitive really, belief system you've got there.
Why wait till Armegeddon, anyway?

Eccleciasties 9:5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Sin=Death if you sin you die You see the way to look at it is like a Cake tin with a dent in it, if you use that tin the dent will be in every cake. same with sin on earth in men, Adam was the oringial human, when he sinned he and eve then had children and those children inherited sin.

All humans are decendant from Adam and eve (except for Jesus, who was an angel in heaven before adam and eve were even created. his life force was just transfered from heaven into Mary's body). You have the free will, what you do with it is your choice, but unfortunately, sin is inherited just like breast cancer is inherited from mother to daughter.

Jesus came to earth and lived as a perfect man. He then died and to wipe away sin forever, he died perfect, ransoming his perfect life for the one Adam lost. But Sin will not be wiped away until after Armageddon, when satan's system (the one we are living in now) is destroyed. It is also the reason why life is so bad now. Satan runs this earth, trying to take as many people down with him as possible 1 peter 5:8 Keep YOUR senses, be watchful. YOUR adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour [someone].

anyway, satan is ruling this planet, bad things happen because of it. GJod does not cause bad things to happen, but has to allow them, so that when he finally acts with Armageddon and then after satan is loosed at the end of judgement day, these things will never happen again. Oh and by the way that child that dies moments after birth, will be ressurected during judgement day.

Judgement day is when all humans are ressurected and given the chance to live and learn about Jehovah God, then we are all tested again for one last time and then those who pass live forever happily.

Jesus' death 1 John 1:7 However, if we are walking in the light as he himself is in the light, we do have a sharing with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin

You have to believe that it is through Jesus that we will inherit Gods Kingdom, which is what happens after armageddon. Its your own free choice to believe or not, just like it was satans free choice to act on his desire to rule over humans and Adam and Eve's free choice to eat of the fruit, thus introducing sin into the earth.

 

[Autodidact]

So, as I was saying, why do religious believers tend to think that just announcing their beliefs is the same thing as them being true. Yeah, locky, we know you believe all this weird stuff cuz it's in your magic book.

Now, as I was saying, your position is that we cause our own death by sinning, so it's not God's fault. My response was, in your belief system, who decided that sinning should result in death? *hint, does it maybe start with G and end with d?

Further, what is the sin of the baby who dies as it is being born, so grievous that it should be subject to capital punishment.

The cake-pan analogy--that cracked me up. A Christian told me once she had been taught that story in Sunday school, and realized how silly it was soon after. I mean, I know this is not your normal practice, but think. How did the cake become the pan? What I mean is, O.K., in your myth system, Adam sinned. That would be like the first cake getting burnt. But what's the pan, and how did it get dented? I mean, it's not even a good analogy, let alone something to base your entire life on.

locky, it's not that I enjoy ridiculing other people's religious beliefs, but if you're going to continue to state them as if they were facts, what else am I to do?

Do you honestly think I don't know all this stuff, that this is new information you're giving me? Honestly, locky, I knew that stuff in all probability before you were born, and figured out it was a silly story soon after. You're not telling me anything new--I know what the Bible says, for heaven's sake, I live in the U.S. of A. I probably know it better than you do.

Now would you pull yourself together and try to make an argument of some kind? You're trying to establish, I believe, that a God who would kill a newborn baby for coveting its neighbor's maidservant is a just and loving God. Go for it. And for heaven's sake stop citing scripture unless you have some point to make.

Yeah, it's my free choice what to believe. Now persuade me that I should believe what you're saying, because it's true. GO!

 

[lockyfan]

May I ask you why your an athiest?

Is it because you are looking around and seeing all the things happening in the world that is so wrong? and you are then thinking wait is there a God?

I can understand you and your belief that there is no God on this, but what I say is, if you dont believe that there is a then fine so be it, but what I say is this: the bible tells me what the world will be like in the end of the system of things, it is exactly as it is now. full of people who hate and cheat and love money more than other humans. I believe the bible, you may not, but saying that I have no understanding of the bible and what God's promise for the world is, or that I have no proof of belief just tells me one thing. satan has done his job on you! He has turned you against God, which I can perfectly understand when you look at what the world is now.

You may believe it is a fairy tale and I dont say anything against that, but in reference to your question of what about a baby born what sin has it done, I actually answered that, by saying to you, Satan is th ruler of this world at this point in time, God, has allowed the world to become a mess, but he will fix the problem once the time is right for it, to make sure that all humans that can be saved, will be saved. that child who is dead now, will be resurrected during Judgement day and will be allowed to live again, in a better world. I would prefer to have been alive or born during the world we are promised than this one, which is full of evil people.

You may not like what I say and then ridicule me, but i say this to you, I have a strong conviction on what you say, and I believe that this world is going down, but I intend to try to spread the good news of Jehovah's Kingdom to all, so that they too can love Him and worship Jehovah, which is where I get this information from and spread this news and believe that He will make things right, when the time comes. We have to wait and see

 

[Magic Man]

May I ask you why your an athiest?{/quote] Sorry, I tried everything to get this to actually quote.

I know you weren't talking to me, but I'll give you my perspective, for what it's worth. I am an atheist because I have no reason to believe that any organized religion I've come across is anything more than a collection of beliefs in something greater than this life made up by primitive people, and perpetuated to control, and comfort the masses. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have no evidence to prove I am at this point.

Is it because you are looking around and seeing all the things happening in the world that is so wrong? and you are then thinking wait is there a God?

It kind of started with that. I was raised Catholic, and in my lat teens began to question things. It started with questioning why the Christian God, being all-good, would create the world the way it is. I went much further from there, though. There are many problems with Christianity, which led me to the conclusion that it can't be right. From there I realized that all of the other theistic religions I heard about had a very logical source in the human mind. It just makes sense for people to make this stuff up. It makes more sense that way, than it does for this stuff to be true.

I can understand you and your belief that there is no God on this, but what I say is, if you dont believe that there is a then fine so be it, but what I say is this: the bible tells me what the world will be like in the end of the system of things, it is exactly as it is now. full of people who hate and cheat and love money more than other humans. I believe the bible, you may not, but saying that I have no understanding of the bible and what God's promise for the world is, or that I have no proof of belief just tells me one thing. satan has done his job on you! He has turned you against God, which I can perfectly understand when you look at what the world is now.

You may believe it is a fairy tale and I dont say anything against that, but in reference to your question of what about a baby born what sin has it done, I actually answered that, by saying to you, Satan is th ruler of this world at this point in time, God, has allowed the world to become a mess, but he will fix the problem once the time is right for it, to make sure that all humans that can be saved, will be saved. that child who is dead now, will be resurrected during Judgement day and will be allowed to live again, in a better world. I would prefer to have been alive or born during the world we are promised than this one, which is full of evil people.

You may not like what I say and then ridicule me, but i say this to you, I have a strong conviction on what you say, and I believe that this world is going down, but I intend to try to spread the good news of Jehovah's Kingdom to all, so that they too can love Him and worship Jehovah, which is where I get this information from and spread this news and believe that He will make things right, when the time comes. We have to wait and see

It's great how the Bible provides the perfect brainwashing. This is the way it is, and anyone who disagrees is being blinded to the truth by Satan. It's genius! It gives you the perfect answer for any case of a disbeliever, because it can apply in every case.

 

[Autodidact]

May I ask you why your an athiest?

Sure, right after you answer the questions I've asked you.

Is it because you are looking around and seeing all the things happening in the world that is so wrong?

No, not at all.

and you are then thinking wait is there a God?

I thought that once. After reviewing the evidence, I concluded that there is not.

I can understand you and your belief that there is no God on this, but what I say is, if you dont believe that there is a then fine so be it, but what I say is this: the bible tells me what the world will be like in the end of the system of things, it is exactly as it is now.

No, it doesn't. In fact, the Bible says that this world will have ended almost 2000 years ago.

full of people who hate and cheat and love money more than other humans. I believe the bible, you may not, but saying that I have no understanding of the bible and what God's promise for the world is, or that I have no proof of belief just tells me one thing. satan has done his job on you! He has turned you against God, which I can perfectly understand when you look at what the world is now.

How can I be against something that doesn't exist? Are you against the tooth fairy?

You may believe it is a fairy tale and I dont say anything against that, but in reference to your question of what about a baby born what sin has it done, I actually answered that, by saying to you, Satan is th ruler of this world at this point in time, God, has allowed the world to become a mess, but he will fix the problem once the time is right for it, to make sure that all humans that can be saved, will be saved.

I'm sorry--I missed the part where you told me what the newborn baby's sin was.

that child who is dead now, will be resurrected during Judgement day and will be allowed to live again, in a better world.

Now this view I am strongly against. The idea that we're all better off dead is abhorrent to me, encourages people to miss out on what I believe is the only life they get, and leads to atrocities such as the crusades.

I would prefer to have been alive or born during the world we are promised than this one, which is full of evil people.

Would you like me to kill you then, purely as a favor to you? btw, I find this attitude absolutely disgusting, and extremely lacking in appreciation for the gift of life, wherever you may believe it comes from.

You may not like what I say and then ridicule me, but i say this to you, I have a strong conviction on what you say, and I believe that this world is going down, but I intend to try to spread the good news of Jehovah's Kingdom to all, so that they too can love Him and worship Jehovah, which is where I get this information from and spread this news and believe that He will make things right, when the time comes. We have to wait and see

I understand that you have a strong conviction. What you don't have is any basis for that conviction, or any rational reason to believe it. How is your strong conviction any more persuasive than that of a Muslim suicide bomber?

 

[Popeyesays]

It is the natural process for every created thing to break down, pass away and for the material and energy invested in any created thing to be recycled into other created things.

Even stars die and the hydrogen amd other elements released to coalesce into new star.s and planets.

Every bit of material in my body came from something else, and in time will be used by something else.
The question is of course, are we nothing more than the material of which our physical being is made?

Regards,
Scott
T

 

[Sola'lor]

Bingo. The lack of an existence of God matches better with reality than the existence of God.

Not with my religion.



Starfish, you made some great posts in this thread!

 

[eXiled]

I don't think God is evil, I just think he doesn't care. That's saying that if there is one, he's forgotton about us. Occassionally he looks in, but mostly he just glares and turns his attention elsewhere. He still causes people to die, today. I believe everyone should live a long, healthy life. Watching television of where children are dying of horrendous diseases and men and women are dying in a war that's become nothing now but a politicial election issue, I can see that he's forgotten. There are few cases in ths world where something horrible was cured, however, those are few and really, really, really, far between. That's when God looks in. The rest of the time, he ignores our calling. I've been calling and praying all my life and the past six months when I needed him the most, he's shunned me, so God, isn't so much evil, as he's not to be bothered with us.

 

[methylatedghosts]

There's so many arguments against God because He cause people to be killed in the Flood, or because I commanded nations to be destroyed. Or they argue God is evil because He allows innocent children to die or people to die 'before there time.' So I'm going to take this argument to is logical conclusion.

Is God evil because He allows TRILLIONS of people to die from old age? Surely and all knowing, all loving God, would not allow trillions of people to die from problems with their bodies.

I could never believe in such a God that would allow death to come to EVERY elderly person in the worlds history. Such a God could NOT be a loving God!

:sarcastic

The only problem with this post being that it assumes that death is a bad thing, or something unnatural.

There is nothing bad about death. Death simply is. A change in form. (Why else is a butterfly such a good symbol of death?)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Eccleciasties 9:5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Sin=Death if you sin you die You see the way to look at it is like a Cake tin with a dent in it, if you use that tin the dent will be in every cake. same with sin on earth in men, Adam was the oringial human, when he sinned he and eve then had children and those children inherited sin.

How is Adam like a cake from a dented tin? How does anything that a formed and finished cake might do affect the tin it was originally baked in?

Children of amputees are usually born with all their limbs. When a person has a stroke, his children and grandchildren don't develop paralysis. All experience and evidence shows that (with the possible exception of exposure to radiation) none of the actions that a person makes in life will change the essence and substance of that person's future children or descendents. Why should we conclude that "sin" behaves completely contrary to virtually every other phenomenon we've ever seen?

When I drop a finished cake, even if I split the cake in two or reduce it to crumbs, nothing at all happens to the pan in the drawer in my kitchen. I could take a cake, back over it in my car and set the remains on fire, but it wouldn't change anything about the next cake I make with that pan.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes, 9/10, locky is basically describing some kind of Lamarckian moral evolution, and of course Lamarkism was disproved 100 years ago.

 

[lockyfan]

Autodidact I only saw one question that you asked! About the baby that has not sinned, how can it be just that it dies? I cant see any others and yet I have answered that question TWICE!

So again for you.

Unfortunately due to Satan challenging Jehovah God, God has had to allow the world to be in satans thrall, so that when the time comes, Gods act to destroy Satan and his system, will establish a world of Happiness and love and caring. that child who died, is then going to be resurrected in the new system, to learn about Jehovah God, and how great he is.

So I repeat bad things happen because God is not in control of this world, satan is. god will be one day and that is when the good stuff starts.


Also I hate this world too, I dont want to live in it, its depressing, wars and unnecessary death, yet I am still alive, I am still here, I have not killed myself, HELLO!!! I was saying I would prefer to be alive in a better world, the one that await those faithful to God

If God were to destroy Satan, Adam and Eve at the start and begin all over, the same questions would have been raised by another Angel, so God, being full of wisdom, as allowed the world to get to where it is, and for Humans to exhaust all ways that they will be able to rule themselves so that in the end, when god acts, no one can say, Hey we didnt try this, this and this, it will be undeniable proof that humans can not live without God ruling the earth, and then mess the world is in, will never exist again.

If you are blind and are still looking for what that newborn babys sin was, then there is something wrong with you, bad things are happening, because satan has control of this earth, NOT God SATAN, someone EVIL has control of this earth, not someone PURE AND GOOD. see the difference is this GOD IS LOVE, SATAN IS SEEKING TO DEVOUR PEOPLE.

I never said the child was better off dead, but I said the child will ahve a second chance of life, just like everyone else.



God does care for us, thus why the world is what it is for now, but it will be better, you just have to trust, and wait for it to come.



I said, ADAM WAS A CAKE TIN, not A CAKE! read carefully please. A tin that is dented will forever make a cake that is dented, because it is dented. Sin is inherited like all those genetic diseases that we get, but it is something that does not skip a generation. It is there ofrever, because humans are imperfect, but when god's System comes, we will have a chance to be perfect, no sickness death, war, all that will be gone forever.

 

[Autodidact]

Autodidact I only saw one question that you asked! About the baby that has not sinned, how can it be just that it dies? I cant see any others and yet I have answered that question TWICE!

O.K. then, if your God exists, He is unjust. Nice God you got there.

So again for you. Unfortunately due to Satan challenging Jehovah God, God has had to allow the world to be in satans thrall, so that when the time comes, Gods act to destroy Satan and his system, will establish a world of Happiness and love and caring. that child who died, is then going to be resurrected in the new system, to learn about Jehovah God, and how great he is.

Would you please stop telling us your primitive myth system as though it were fact?

Meanwhile, the kid's dead. Which, however doesn't seem to bother you. This may be why Christians are the least compassionate of all people--they figure everything gets made better later--after you're dead. Personally, I'd rather have justice, mercy and compassion here on earth.

I'll just point out that under your belief system, life is worthless, and death is a blessing. Sick belief system you've got there.

So I repeat bad things happen because God is not in control of this world, satan is. god will be one day and that is when the good stuff starts.

So I guess your God isn't omnipotent then?

Also I hate this world too, I dont want to live in it, its depressing, wars and unnecessary death, yet I am still alive, I am still here, I have not killed myself, HELLO!!! I was saying I would prefer to be alive in a better world, the one that await those faithful to God

That's sickening. I love life and appreciate every day of it I get to enjoy. Sucks to be you.

If God were to destroy Satan, Adam and Eve at the start and begin all over, the same questions would have been raised by another Angel, so God, being full of wisdom, as allowed the world to get to where it is, and for Humans to exhaust all ways that they will be able to rule themselves so that in the end, when god acts, no one can say, Hey we didnt try this, this and this, it will be undeniable proof that humans can not live without God ruling the earth, and then mess the world is in, will never exist again.

Hello. Knock, knock, anyone in there? I'm not interested in learning your mythology, O.K.? It's primitive, and I'm not an anthropologist. Do you have any reality to contribute, or only silly stories?

If you are blind and are still looking for what that newborn babys sin was, then there is something wrong with you, bad things are happening, because satan has control of this earth, NOT God SATAN, someone EVIL has control of this earth, not someone PURE AND GOOD. see the difference is this GOD IS LOVE, SATAN IS SEEKING TO DEVOUR PEOPLE.

I have to ask, and I know there's got to be some weird, myth-based answer. Why doesn't your God just get rid of Satan and bring in the era of love, joy and happiness?

I never said the child was better off dead, but I said the child will ahve a second chance of life, just like everyone else.

O.K., thank you. Killing babies is BAD. God orders people to kill babies. Therefore, God is bad. Now show me the flaw in my logic.

God does care for us, thus why the world is what it is for now, but it will be better, you just have to trust, and wait for it to come.

No, I don't. I prefer to use my sense, evidence, logic and reason, then to trust some crackpot on the internet.

I said, ADAM WAS A CAKE TIN, not A CAKE! read carefully please. A tin that is dented will forever make a cake that is dented, because it is dented. Sin is inherited like all those genetic diseases that we get, but it is something that does not skip a generation. It is there ofrever, because humans are imperfect, but when god's System comes, we will have a chance to be perfect, no sickness death, war, all that will be gone forever.

But wasn't Adam a man? And aren't men cakes? I mean, the whole metaphor is like a primitive fairy tale to me, but just to enter into the spirit of the thing, isn't that right?